Casey Anthony Letters Admit Chloroform Use
Aired April 6, 2010 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the search for 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminate when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct- taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple-bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, we obtain 50 -- 50-plus -- handwritten letters tot mom secretly writes, then smuggles to a female inmate. Total, over 250 handwritten pages, plus all the late-night conversations tot mom has through the AC vent to the same two inmates. KO! Knockout to the defense. We confirm the inmates were housed in the cellblock with tot mom. Tot mom complaining, whining she got pregnant too young, then ultimately confessing she knocks out her own daughter with powerful sedatives, then stashes her in the car so tot mom could party and live the single life she always wanted, the letters revealing completely contradictory stories about Caylee`s so-called kidnap.
And then in a disgusting and bizarre twist, tot mom points the finger at her brother, Lee, and even her own father, grandfather George, claiming they sexually molested her. All the while, tot mom soaking up the star treatment she gets behind bars, admitting she`s become quite the celebrity and she loves it! Tot mom thinks it`s all about her. But I`ve got a surprise for tot mom tonight. It`s not about her at all. It`s about Caylee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: I`m going to start writing letters. I`m going to do it today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re getting shocking new details from the 258 pages of notes and letters Casey Anthony wrote to a female drug dealer that she met at a central Florida jail.
CASEY ANTHONY: As long as we have Caylee home, everything else with me we`ll deal with as we can.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "The Orlando Sentinel" is reporting Adams told investigators Anthony admitted she used to knock out her toddler daughter so she could go out at night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I found out on line through, like, FaceBook and MySpace, where she was going to be at a party.
CASEY ANTHONY: Getting Caylee home is our priority. Everything else will fall into place after that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A computer expert told the sheriff`s office that these searches that were found on Casey`s computer about how to make chloroform and neck breaking and that sort of thing was -- it was an unusually large file that appeared to have been deleted very close to the time that investigators seized that computer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the single most compelling pieces of evidence for premeditation in this case is that a chloroform search was done and there was chloroform found in the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It takes time for the chloroform to get into the hair, and the hair has to grow out of the follicle. If there was just one incidence where the chloroform was used to knock her out, tape her mouth, and so forth, it may not get into the hair.
CASEY ANTHONY: They`re twisting stuff. They`ve already said they`re going to pin this on me if they don`t find Caylee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, we obtain 50-plus handwritten letters tot mom secretly writes, then smuggles to a female inmate. Total, over 250 handwritten pages, tot mom ultimately confessing she knocks out her own daughter with powerful sedatives, then stashes Caylee in the car so tot mom could party and live the single life she always wanted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: The only way they`re going to find Caylee is if they actually listen to what I`m saying. And I`m trying to help them, and they`re not letting me help them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Secret letters from jail just released, 258 pages from Casey Anthony to her drug dealer pen pal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s nothing in there that it is by any means even close to a confession.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... spilled her guts about plans after she`s released. Casey even reportedly took time to bash her own mom and dad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We think that there are things in there that she`ll be criticized about because of the editorializing that goes on in this case and the way people like to criticize Miss Anthony.
CASEY ANTHONY: The media completely misconstrued everything that I said. The (EXPLETIVE DELETED) detectives told them (EXPLETIVE DELETED) (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The letters are all over the place, and they really run the gamut. I made a list. She talks about going to Bible study. She talks about movies she`s seen. She talks about her family. She talks about friends. She talks about how she misses Caylee. She also talks about preparation for the memorial for Caylee Anthony.
CASEY ANTHONY: There`s absolutely nothing to find out, not even what I told the detectives.
LEE ANTHONY, CASEY`S BROTHER: Well, you know, everything that you`re telling them is a lie.
CASEY ANTHONY: I have no clue where Caylee is. If I knew where Caylee was, do you think any of this would be happening? No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Did I just hear her lawyer say that the media is editorializing tot mom`s letters, 250 pages of long handwritten letters talking all about herself? We don`t need to editorialize what she wrote. It`s damning enough reading it in the black and white!
To Kathi Belich with WFTV, joining us out of Orlando. This is a treasure trove for the state. This is the biggest development in this case since the finding of the child`s body, the discovery of the body thrown away like trash just 15 houses from the Anthony home, these letters and these conversations tot mom has through a heating and air-conditioning vent. And we`ve confirmed through our sources tonight that that is entirely possible. It`s a torpedo to the defense, Kathi Belich. What`s in the letters?
KATHI BELICH, WFTV: Well, we understand that she told one of the inmates that she used chloroform to knock out Caylee so that she could go out. And she insinuated that she might have gotten that chloroform from her mother, who might have brought it home from a clinic where she worked. But she said she did that to knock Caylee out because Caylee had trouble sleeping when she wanted to go out and she couldn`t find a baby-sitter.
GRACE: OK, just very quickly, to Dr. Marty Makary, physician, professor of public health, Johns Hopkins. Dr. Makary, it`s my understanding that chloroform was banned by the government for consumer use on patients back in the `70s. So if that`s correct, if I understand that - - I mean, maybe they could still use it at a hospital, I don`t think so -- but that would be a big -- another big, fat lie of tot mom`s, that she got it through her mother.
DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, JOHNS HOPKINS: That`s right. We only use straight alcohol. We don`t use chloroform anymore. The only place it`s really stocked is in a laboratory, where in cases...
GRACE: Wait! Wa-wa-wa-wa-wait. You use straight alcohol? What do you mean you use straight alcohol? For what?
MAKARY: Anything that ends with an O-L, like chloroform or alcohol, is used to clean. It`s a sanitizer. It`s diluted down, and it`s a powerful antiseptic. So we use straight alcohol to clean or -- or sterilize all sorts of equipment.
GRACE: OK, you just taught me something new, Dr. Makary. I thought chloroform was used to sedate people.
MAKARY: It used to be in the old days used to sedate people when they didn`t have good anesthesia. But it was also a poisonous toxin. So for that reason, it was abandoned, as you mentioned.
GRACE: So there`s no way her mother could have gotten this and brought it home and then tot mom get her hands on it?
MAKARY: I couldn`t get it from my own hospital, if I tried.
MAKARY: The only place is a catalog or a laboratory or something like that.
GRACE: So bottom line -- back to you, Kathi Belich -- what this means to me is that all those computer searches she did on how to make homemade hooch, chloroform -- she`s trying to push it off on her mother. Her mother, Cindy Anthony, is not bringing home chloroform from any clinic. OK. What else was in the letters?
BELICH: There was also something about the day that Caylee`s remains were found. This is very damning information, as well. Inmate Robyn Adams, who she befriended at the jail, said that on the day Caylee`s remains were found, after the jail chaplain had broken the news to Casey, that she talked to Casey and Casey told her that they had found a child`s remains and the child was wrapped in a blanket and a trash bag, a black trash bag.
But investigators noted that the chaplain at the jail nor anyone else, including Casey, would have been given those details on that first day. And they`re pointing out that the only person who would have known those details or only people who would have known those details would be the killer and investigators. So they`re saying that that looks like guilty knowledge on her part to give those details...
GRACE: OK, hold on. To you, Ellie Jostad. Break that down for me.
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right. Well, we all remember -- and we saw this in some evidence that was released earlier. They said that the day that Casey Anthony was taken from her cell, notified about Caylee - - or the finding of a small child`s body, they said that she was in her cell. She was eventually taking to listen to the media reports. But what they`re saying is when she told this fellow inmate that they`d found a body, she gave details, like Kathi said, about the black bag, about a blanket, that the chaplain who notified her, he didn`t know anything about that, so he couldn`t have told her. They`re saying these are only details the killer or the investigators would know about.
GRACE: And there you see the female inmate, Robyn Adams, that tot mom spoke to ad nauseam. And Kathi Belich with WFTV, isn`t it true that tot mom -- now, this isn`t about the case, but I just find this freaky -- that she goes on -- and the inmate will be talking about Caylee, and then tot mom goes off on her plans to travel when she`s released from jail and she wants to get an RV with this woman and travel the country and sightsee. She`s planning a vacation, right?
BELICH: It`s true. She -- yes, she talked very little about Caylee in these letters. She talked a lot about her plans, what she plans to do. She wanted to apparently make a movie, write a book about all of this...
GRACE: Make a movie? OK, Kathi Belich, is there one thing, one thing in all of these letters, in all of these conversations, about who is the real killer and that she is distraught about not finding the killer who took her daughter and killed her daughter? Anything? I haven`t heard one word about it.
BELICH: Well, I have read a little bit about it. She did say that at some point, she felt like she needed to do something drastic to whoever is responsible. But on the other hand, she talked about how Caylee would be better off, she`ll never have her heart broken, no one will ever take advantage of her...
GRACE: Wait! Wa-wa-wa-wa-wa! So in 250 pages, in all those late- night pillow talk conversations she has with the other female inmate, she says one time, I may need to do something drastic to whoever killed Caylee? That`s it? That`s it?
BELICH: That really is it. She never talked about finding the killer. In fact, she comes out and says that her friend Zenaida of four years she knows had nothing to do with this and she doesn`t blame her for not showing her face publicly because she`d just get blamed. She really contradicts a lot of what she says back and forth in these letters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chloroform would have to be investigated. That`s a potential cause of death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s well documented Casey Anthony liked to party. One of her friends even says, at parties, quote, "The kid slept through anything."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They may work 10 times. But the 11th time, too much is given and the baby dies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "The Orlando Sentinel" is reporting Anthony admitted she used to knock out her toddler daughter so she could go out at night.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Evidence reportedly shows traces of chloroform found in mother Casey Anthony`s car.
CINDY ANTHONY: There was a bag of pizza for what, 12 days in the back of the car, full of maggots. It stunk so bad.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: There was an overpowering smell. I`ll admit that.
CINDY ANTHONY: There was no odor in the car when it was towed down to the towing company. No odor.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her computer, confiscated by police after her July arrest, shows someone was searching Web sites for information about chloroform.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`ll leak and say there`s evidence of searches on a computer, chloroform in the trunk, OK? That`s A to Z. What about B through Y?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The practice is more common among young moms who don`t want to be bothered by a crying baby. It`s well documented Casey Anthony liked to party. And in discovery documents, one of her friends even says at parties, quote, "The kid slept through anything." Someone at the Anthony home looked up chloroform on the Web around the time of Caylee`s disappearance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where`s the transaction? Where`s the credit card receipt?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have forensic evidence that has been returned to us regarding the vehicle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She didn`t just walk into Walgreen`s and buy chloroform.
CASEY ANTHONY: I just watched the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) news and heard everything that my mom said. Nobody in my own family is on my side!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Straight out to Debra in Canada. Hi, Debra.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Oh, I`m so happy to talk to you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First of all, I want to say I love your show. Keep doing what you`re doing. And you`re a wonderful mom. My question is, has anyone ever diagnosed her? Has she ever seen a psychiatrist for bipolar or some mental illness?
GRACE: Debra in Canada, believe me, if there`s any remote possibility that she is bipolar, we will hear about it in court. What about it, Kathi Belich?
BELICH: We do know that she underwent a psychological and psychiatric, I believe, evaluation when she went into the jail, and I think every time she went into the jail, and she was cleared as far as that. She`s not in a psychiatric ward, and I think she`s not under any special medications for any type of affliction like that.
GRACE: What about it, Ellie?
JOSTAD: I was just going to say the exact same thing Kathi said. We don`t know of any history of mental illness. There are people that suggested in their statements to police that they thought she might have bipolar disorder, but as far as we know, she`s never been diagnosed that way by a medical professional.
GRACE: To Bonnie in Wisconsin. Hi, Bonnie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for taking my call. I really...
GRACE: Thank you for calling in. Bless you. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will all or some of these letters be let in in her court case and used as somewhat of a confession?
GRACE: They will absolutely be admissible. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight out of New York, Susan Moss, family law attorney, child advocate, John Burris, famed attorney out of the San Francisco jurisdiction, and out of Atlanta, Raymond Giudice, defense attorney. What about it, Sue Moss?
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Oh, they`re absolutely coming in. She gave Caylee that chloroform drug so she could go out and cut a rug? This is absolutely what they needed to tie up her going on the computer, finding chloroform, and then finding evidence of chloroform close to that body. This is a slam dunk.
GRACE: John Burris?
JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, some portion of the statements will come in. The parts you just talked about, the chloroform, certainly will come in. Other aspects of the statement will come in, as well, particularly about statements regarding her knowledge about how the child died. But most of the other stuff probably won come in because it`s just character evidence that does not go to the charges themselves. Some portion of it will. Most of it will not.
GRACE: You know, Raymond Giudice, of course I disagree with John Burris. And if I were arguing the case, I would argue that all of these letters go to her frame of mind. She`s behind bars. According to her, she doesn`t know who killed her child, her little girl. Now, don`t you know, Ray, if you or your wife were wrongly accused of one of your wife`s children`s deaths that you would be livid, you would be beside yourself to find the person that killed the child? And she`s talking about her vacation in an RV, touring the country when she gets out from behind bars? This goes to her frame of mind.
RAYMOND GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, I agree with John. A lot of this is going to be relevant. I haven`t seen all 250 pages and had a chance to read it carefully. But I`ll tell you what. It might be so bad that the defense counsel may want to put it all in so the jury spends their time reading about her hair care products, instead of looking at the scientific evidence, which at the end of the day is going to convict her.
GRACE: You know what, Ray? Dream on. Because any jury in their right mind will be able to process all of this just as easily as you can.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First we told you about the forensic evidence suggesting Caylee Anthony`s decomposing body was at one time in the trunk of the car. Now preliminary tests show chloroform was in that trunk, too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anthony admitted she used to knock out her toddler daughter so she could go out at night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a dangerous practice because you don`t know how much the child is inhaling. It can shut down the respiratory system, the brain, and then the heart.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re getting shocking new details from the 258 pages of notes and letters Casey Anthony wrote to a female drug dealer that she met at a central Florida jail. Along with the letters, a transcript of an interview with Adams was released. "The Orlando Sentinel" is reporting Adams told investigators Anthony admitted she used to knock out her toddler daughter so she could go out at night. Casey Anthony is in custody under a protective custody status, which means that she isn`t allowed to communicate directly with other inmates. Under those rules, passing notes isn`t permitted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, where there`s a will, there is a way. Not only do we learn tot mom sends 50-plus letters to the tune of 250-plus handwritten pages, she also has long late-night conversations when all the other inmates have gone to sleep through the air-condition and heating vent to two other inmates. We have confirmed their locations in the cellblock and that it is, in fact, possible. It`s like talking on a telephone to these other inmates.
Straight back out to the lines. Maria, Arkansas. Hi, Maria.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve got a question, and then I want to make a statement.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did anybody ever go and check out the meter reader`s apartment where he lived to see if there was anything there that might put him in with Caylee`s murder?
GRACE: OK. Let me just ask you out of curiosity, Maria, how would that fit in with tot mom`s theory that the nanny stole Caylee from a public park? Where would the meter reader fit into that? Maria?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t -- I don`t -- I don`t -- those were not -- - that I don`t think happened. I don`t believe that it ever happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Casey Anthony wrote 50 letters, 258 pages, to another inmate at the Orange County jail.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What Casey Anthony is writing from behind bars, and here it is, about the nanny.
"I know that Caylee`s nanny, the real Zenaida, the girl who was my friend for four years, I know in my heart that she`s not responsible, and I don`t blame her for not showing her face. Would you want to be sitting here with me for doing something that you didn`t do?"
"I was going to take Caylee and move away." OK? "Unfortunately, my plans got beyond tangled when Zanny wouldn`t tell me where she and Cays were. I had asked her to take Cays for a few days so I could put some stuff together, money I had saved, new clothes, new in everything. That`s why I waited to report her missing because she was and wasn`t."
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": She actually does regret something. When she`s talking about Zenaida and how that she kept Caylee for 30 days and she then didn`t know where she was, she said she allowed the 30 days to go by because she thought Zenaida was going to return her, and she said, "If I could only go back in time." She does regret something there.
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: There`s nothing in there that is, by any means, even close to a confession. It`s really just a bunch of communication back and forth. And we`re not really concerned with what`s in there.
Had we filed a motion, the speculation would have been endless, and we decided as a team it`s probably best just to go ahead and let it be released to end the speculation. Unfortunately, this somehow occurred, where you had the two highest classified inmates in a facility being allowed to communicate, and it`s quite frankly unacceptable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: As we are going to air, we get a response from the defense, stating, "The letters released reflect the natural desire for companionship when isolated 23 hours a day, demonstrate Casey`s unconditional love for her daughter. Despite its intentions it`s obvious in the letters authored by Robyn Adams, the inmate, her purpose in corresponding was to create leverage to get out of prison early.
"Furthermore, despite numerous media reports, inaccurate reports, the letters written by Anthony do not contain a reference to chloroform or admissions of guilt. Casey Anthony maintains her innocence and looks forward to her day in court."
They thought it very important to get this media response out tonight. But back to you, Ellie Jostad. In the letters and in the conversations does she mention that she knocks out the child so she can go party?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Yes, well, both of these inmates, Maya Derkovic, who is a convicted murderer, she murdered a 15-year-old girl. Also Robyn Adams, who`s a convicted drug dealer, now serving time in federal prison.
They both claim that in conversations with them Casey Anthony told them that she would knock out Caylee. She did this so she didn`t have to get a babysitter, she didn`t want to leave Caylee with her parents. So she would put her to sleep so that she could then go party.
One of them used the phrase so she could go out. It`s because they said she was complaining that she was young. She couldn`t live the life she wanted with a child.
GRACE: I want to go now to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, who spent time with the Anthony family when he first helped tot mom bond out from behind bars.
Are you surprised, Leonard Padilla, at all these letters and the comments that she made about having Caylee too young, that she wanted to be single, the comments about doping the child up so she`d be knocked out so she could go party all night?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, BAILED CASEY ANTHONY OUT OF JAIL: No. None of it surprises me. But I will tell you this. Cindy never brought no chloroform home. She probably never had access to it. Because when we were there one of the things that they were very, very strict on, no guns in the house, and they even went as far as to say that they had decided when that child was living with them -- when the child was born, they were going to have no guns in the house.
And I can tell you this. Cindy brought no chloroform home. The only drug she ever used to put her child to sleep so she could party was Zanax, and that`s where the term Zanny came up two or three years before.
The whole system of writing that she`s using right now is Casey through and through. She`s letting out certain things, tidbits and all that. And you know, it`s like the old term, the old expression about crazy like a fox.
You might think that McNaughton applies to her, but it doesn`t. It`s a situation where she`s crazy like a fox, she`s letting things out just far enough to where they can be interpreted. But the real killer against her is going to be where she specifically states things like "the black bag," "the blanket," when there was no way she could have known about that unless she had actual knowledge of it.
GRACE: And also, Leonard Padilla, what about her bizarre and twisted claims pointing the finger at her own father and brother as sexually molesting her?
PADILLA: You know, the situation came up before. Long ago it has come up in more than one conversation. She wants to have a situation where she can set up the molestation in case she needs it down the road.
She wants to set up certain things like Cindy possibly bringing chloroform home from where she works in case she needs it as an excuse for the chloroform. But the damning situation is where she herself sits there and says "black bag" and "blanket" when the body was found and obviously relays it to somebody.
She had no way of having that knowledge, as the detectives have said. They never disclosed that kind of information right off the top. They didn`t do it then, and they probably haven`t done it now.
As far as the letters, they`re probably more damning against her than when she was actually having conversations with her mom and dad and Lee. Because this is in her own handwriting. She can`t blame any miscommunication on somebody else. She`s doing the communicating herself.
And that`s Casey. I`m telling you, it`s actual Casey in those letters. Every bit of it.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Beverly in Rhode Island. Hi, Beverly.
BEVERLY, CALLER FROM RHODE ISLAND: Hi.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
BEVERLY: I have a question. The defense keeps saying that the body was placed there while she was in prison. And for a while there I remember one time on your show that summer no one could find Lee, they didn`t know where he was. Could it be possible that she had her brother place that baby in the woods there?
GRACE: Excellent question. To you, Ellie Jostad. Let`s take a look at that. Why is the defense claiming the body was placed where it was found while tot mom was behind bars? And bottom line, even if she did have her brother Lee discard the body, which I don`t believe, all right? That still means that she killed the child.
JOSTAD: Well, and Nancy, this keeps coming up. In fact, in a hearing a few months ago Todd (INAUDIBLE), who used to be on the defense team, said that there was overwhelming evidence that the body was placed there while Casey was in jail.
Now, the state asked them to present that evidence. There was even a deadline set. I believe it was back in February. That date came and went. We never found out what that evidence is.
But as you know, the defense keeps trying to get those Texas EquuSearch records. They claim there could be volunteers that searched that area that summer while Casey was in jail and there were no remains there.
GRACE: Back to the lines, Carla, Virginia. Hi, Carla.
CARLA, CALLER FROM VIRGINIA: Hi, Nancy. How are you today?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
CARLA: My question is -- well, actually, it`s a statement. There is absolutely no possible way that she was ever sexually molested. She is using this to get the public that hates her for sympathy. They`re thinking, oh, well, maybe something happened to her.
Because if she loved her daughter so much and she was sexually molested, why would she leave her there with her father and Lee? Because I mean he was always in and out of the house before he moved.
Why would she leave the child there to be molested also?
GRACE: That is an excellent question. Out to Dr. Michelle Golland, psychologist and expert on Momlogic.com.
Doctor, doesn`t her own behavior belie or disprove her claims that her father and brother molested her?
MICHELLE GOLLAND, PSYD., PSYCHOLOGIST, EXPERT ON MOMLOGIC.COM: Yes. I mean the one thing we can be for sure, Nancy, about is the fact that she is a pathological liar. And there`s been a lot of question about does she have a mental illness. And what I see, Nancy, is a personality disorder.
This is a woman who has narcissistic and borderline personality features, which go to the whole idea of manipulating and lying and trying to get attention and all the things. Wanting to live her life at the expense of getting rid of her daughter.
GRACE: And doesn`t it seem to you, Michelle Golland, that if she had been molested, as the caller accurately points out, by her father and brother, no way would she leave the child there alone with him.
GOLLAND: It would be really, really shocking --
GOLLAND: -- if she would. Although -- yes.
GRACE: To Ray Giudice, John Burris, Susan Moss.
Ray Giudice, it sounds to me like she`s trying to set up a defense behind bars, blaming Cindy Anthony for bringing home chloroform -- not true-- pointing the finger at her own father, who has stood by her through thick and thin, and brother, that they molested her. B.S.
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, we`ve talked earlier. I`ve always felt that George, the father, was one of her best and only witnesses. But I think what Leonard pointed out is true. This might be death penalty information at death penalty sentencing to try to avoid her going to the gas chamber or to whatever method they use in Florida.
GRACE: Agree, John Burris?
JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I do agree. I think it goes only to the sentencing phase of a case where you`re looking for mitigation as opposed to the actual trial itself where you`re trying to determine whether she did it or not.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is one person to believe that those -- that the remains of Caylee Marie Anthony were placed there after Casey Anthony was locked up in jail, to reach a reasonable doubt, which of course would require Miss Anthony`s acquittal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: The media is going to have a freaking field day with this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The charges against you are first degree murder --
CASEY ANTHONY: I take complete and full responsibility for my actions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aggravated child abuse.
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m sorry for what I did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aggravated manslaughter.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: I still believe my daughter.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: I believe in my daughter.
LEE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S BROTHER: I believe everything that my sister tells me.
CASEY ANTHONY: The most important thing in this entire world to me. I just want my baby back.
CINDY ANTHONY: My daughter from day one has gotten, you know -- she has been a victim just as much as Caylee.
CASEY ANTHONY: They`ve already said they`re going to pin this on me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Caylee was almost 3 when she died.
CINDY ANTHONY: There`s no evidence that Casey has ever done any harm to her child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With duct tape over her nose and her mouth.
CINDY ANTHONY: You`re talking about a 3-year-old little girl.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First one piece --
CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t know what your involvement is, sweetheart.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then two. Then three.
GEORGE ANTHONY: There was an overpowering smell. I`ll admit that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So that no breath was possible.
CASEY ANTHONY: My entire life has been taken from me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Trying to pin it on Zanny the nanny.
CASEY ANTHONY: Everything has been taken from me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She tries to pin it on people who don`t even exist.
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m not in control over any of this.
CINDY ANTHONY: What she told me and what I found out was two different things.
CASEY ANTHONY: You`re not helping me help myself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anyone who contends that no juror could find that these conclusions call for a sentence of death is only fooling themselves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Tonight bombshell out of Florida. We get 50-plus handwritten letters by tot mom to another female inmate. Not only that. Which equals over 250 handwritten pages. We learned about late-night conversations, pillow talk between tot mom and two other female inmates, long after everyone else has gone to sleep, through the heat and air-condition ducts.
To Kathi Belich, WFTV. Isn`t it true that these two women were in fact on the cell block with tot mom?
KATHI BELICH, REPORTER, CNN AFFILIATE WFTV, COVERING STORY: Yes, they were. They were there at the exact same time she was there. That much the jail would confirm. And some of these records that we just got today indicate that one of the jail guards was actually facilitating meetings between the two of them late at night, even at one point helping Casey cut Robyn Adams` hair through an opening in her cell.
So there was some facilitation going on apparently within the jail, helping them communicate with one another.
GRACE: So Kathi Belich, it`s just like one big pajama party there at the jail?
BELICH: Well, I don`t know about that. But it sounds like --
GRACE: Well, they`re cutting each other`s hair. They`re having late- night meetings with each other after everybody else has gone to sleep. They`re talking like high school girls on the telephone in the early morning hours.
BELICH: It`s certainly surprising. I mean, the number of letters that were passed --
GRACE: I mean -- put Belich up. Belich.
GRACE: Didn`t you ever go to a pajama party when you were in high school?
BELICH: Yes. Of course.
GRACE: Well, isn`t that what you do? The only thing they didn`t do is call a boy and hang up.
BELICH: That`s right. It seems like that, yes.
GRACE: To Ellie Jostad, what else is in the letters that is damning to the defense?
JOSTAD: Well, Nancy, we also know that she apparently didn`t express any real concern when other inmates would say things like -- one of the inmates describes how when Casey Anthony was taken out of her cell for an attorney meeting or what have you, the other inmates would taunt her and they would all yell things like, where`s Caylee, Casey?
And even though they were trying to be nasty this inmate says that Casey Anthony just thought it was funny. She would smile and laugh and didn`t seem to be concerned by it, just seemed to revel in the fact that people knew her name and knew who she was.
GRACE: This is the woman whose 2-year-old child has allegedly been kidnapped and murdered, her skeleton found thrown away in a trash bag, the skull duct-taped. And she, Ellie, tot mom, is worried about her complexion and how she`s going to look in court?
JOSTAD: Yes. Apparently she also wrote in one these letters that -- she said something to the effect of, you know, I wanted to go to bed early tonight so I could get up early and look pretty for jail. Now I`m going to look bad.
She also complained about the clothes that her mother, Cindy Anthony, had sent to the jail that she could wear in court. She describes one of her looks as her naughty librarian look.
It goes on and on. She`s complaining about her acne. She complains about the ramen noodles she has to eat --
GRACE: Wait. Wait. Her acne? She complains about her acne?
JOSTAD: Yes. That`s in one of the letters.
GRACE: And one of the outfits she wears to court she describes as the naughty librarian? You know what? I`m learning more about her than I ever wanted to know.
JOSTAD: That`s true. And she complained because she said, you know, Cindy sent over this jacket and she said something like this jacket I`ve never heard of and a sheer white blouse and blue pants. And then she says like, what?
She`s complaining that her mother isn`t bringing her the right sort of clothes apparently to wear in court.
GRACE: Really? That`s her concern? To Sergeant Scott Haines, sheriff`s officer, Sta. Rosa County, Florida.
Sergeant, explain to me why it is illegal for inmates to have these conversations and to pass letters. Why was the sheriff thrown out of her job? She`s on paid leave. It`s kind of like a paid vacation. But why?
SGT. SCOTT HAINES, SHERIFF`S OFFICER, SANTA ROSA COUNTY, FL.: One of the biggest things, it`s a safety concern. When you have inmates talking to each other when they`re supposed to be in confinement by themselves and they`re passing information back and forth, they could be plotting either some type of an escape or some type of an assault on an officer.
They have reasons for that. And that`s why.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: She is not a murderer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I looked at it and I examined it. And I saw the duct tape and I saw the eye sockets and I realized what it was.
CASEY ANTHONY: I spent the day almost completely by myself.
CINDY ANTHONY: I love her and I support her.
CASEY ANTHONY: I was completely and utterly miserable.
CINDY ANTHONY: I exactly know how hard it is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In her own words she says that she still maintains the story that Caylee was with Zenaida Gonzalez. She was planning to move away. She had left Caylee with her and all her plans got tangled out of control because Caylee was with Zenaida and she didn`t report her missing because she was, but yet she wasn`t missing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to you, Ellie. Let`s answer the question from Carla in Virginia. So many people still want to pin this on Ray Kronk, the meter reader.
GRACE: What do we know about whether police did search his place?
JOSTAD: Well, we were just talking about this trying to remember. And Natisha Lance -- her understanding was that they did search his house. We know that they did interview him numerous times and could find no connection between him and the Anthony family.
GRACE: And to you, John Burris, he is an obvious scapegoat because he called 911 several times. He`s the one that stumbled on the body, so naturally they`re going to try to blame him.
BURRIS: Well, I don`t know that if I were the defense lawyers I would do that. I can see that you might want to do it. Because it`s not really provable in any real way, you discredit yourself as a defense counsel if you try to --
GRACE: That`s a good point.
BURRIS: -- make that argument in the case. So I would not have done that. I think they`ve got enough problems focusing on the evidence as unfolding here now and try to deal with some of these statements that she has made. Particularly they`re trying to get something less than first- degree murder.
So that to me is a red herring and I wouldn`t spend any time dealing with it.
GRACE: You know, put Burris back up. You know, Burris, that is actually really excellent trial strategy right there, because you don`t want to bring up the phantom, the Specter, that Ray Kronk did it, and then have Ray Kronk come in with a story that absolutely proves he didn`t do it.
That shoots your theory down immediately. I mean -- so if they did focus on that, as you are suggesting, it would be their ruin.
BURRIS: Yes. It would not be good. There are other things they got to focus on that they got enough problems dealing with it. And that, to me, is not the place to spend any time.
GRACE: Yes. What about it, Sue Moss?
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY & CHILD ADVOCATE: But Casey is looking for scapegoats left and right like Lee. I mean she`s got some nerve calling that guy a perv.
GRACE: You know I`m surprised you could pull off two rap rhymes in one show, but you did it.
Everybody, let`s stop and remember Army Private 1st Class James Harrelson, just 19, Dadeville, Alabama, killed Iraq. Awarded the Medal of Honor, the nation`s highest military award, the Bronze Star and Purple Heart.
Never met a stranger. Affectionately called Spanky. Remembered for a smile that lit up a room. Loved his God, family, friends, country, sports, dancing. Dreamed of being a father and living on a lake.
Leaves behind grieving parents James and Tammy, stepfather Dennis, brother Christopher, who also served Iraq, and sisters Tonya and Jessica.
James Harrelson, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially you for being with us. And a special good night from friends of the show, Lisa, Brenda, Jennifer and Virginia. VG (ph).
And aren`t they a beautiful group?
And thank you to North Carolina friend, Mary, for these Easter bunnies for the twins made out of milk jugs.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp eastern, and until then, good night, friend.