Casey Anthony Defense Adds Some Unexpected Witnesses
Aired April 1, 2011 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defense may try to show that George was abusive to Casey.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: I`m not talking to anybody. Stay off my property!
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: He`s been angry every day.
GEORGE ANTHONY: If you don`t want to be knocked down, get out of my way!
You don`t care about my granddaughter!
I`m talking! I am talking! Shut up!
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: Please. I`m completely...
GEORGE ANTHONY: I`m not trying to get you upset. I`m trying to...
CASEY ANTHONY: No, but I am upset now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: George Anthony grabbed and shoved protester Patricia Young (ph). She wanted to prosecute.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were not on his property.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Shut up! Shut up! Shut up!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that she is suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder.
CASEY ANTHONY: My entire life has been taken from me! Everything has been taken from me!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This could mean that they`re going to attempt to pin the murder on George.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you need a moment, it`s OK.
GEORGE ANTHONY: It`s just an emotional time, that`s all. It`s just hard.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey cannot legally use abuse as a defense, but she can use it to explain her lack of emotion over daughter Caylee`s disappearance.
CASEY ANTHONY: My daughter`s been missing for the last 31 days.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Get off my property!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George Anthony accused of shoving two protesters outside his home and while clutching a hammer.
GEORGE ANTHONY: You want to get off my property?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not on your property!
GEORGE ANTHONY: Get off my property. Get off my lawn.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t touch me. Don`t touch me.
GEORGE ANTHONY: I just touched you. I just touched you. Next time I see you or anyone else on my property, I will file charges on you. You think I`m kidding? I`m not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the search for 2-year-old Florida girl Caylee. Six months of searching culminate when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple bagging little Caylee like she`s trash!
Bombshell tonight. Is tot mom`s defense now set to point their finger at grandfather George Anthony, blaming him for Caylee`s murder? The defense adding new witnesses just weeks before tot mom`s murder trial, witnesses intended to skewer tot mom`s own father, George, tot mom apparently planning to point the finger at her own father as 2-year-old Caylee`s killer. Who else will she blame? The defense tab skyrocketing, taxpayers already paying the $100,000-plus bill, and it`s rising by the day, expected to approach half a million dollars.
Right now, straight out to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session," live tonight in Orlando. Jean, what can you tell me?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Well, Nancy, we`re so close to the trial, and the defense gave notice to the court today that it would like to call six additional witnesses. The state at this point, knowing this is a death case, knowing if is there a conviction, there will be an automatic appeal, is not contesting it, except they said the psychiatrist and the psychologist that are on board for the defense to rebut the consciousness of guilt evidence in the state`s case -- they`re going to depose them next week. So they`re going to get back with the court if they have an issue with those witnesses.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Drew Petrimoulx, reporter with WDBO. Drew, thanks for being with us. Drew, I don`t know why the defense is just now adding these witnesses. Let`s see that video of when George Anthony shoved the protesters back off of his yard. These are the women that they want to call.
Now, what does that, Drew Petrimoulx, have to do with the murder of 2- year-old Caylee?
DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO RADIO: Well, Judge Perry (ph) in this case just recently ruled that some of Casey`s statements that she made in the early parts of this investigation will be allowed in trial. So it`s possible that the defense is calling these experts and other witnesses to try to explain how Casey was acting, why she was acting the way she was...
GRACE: OK, wait a minute! Wait a minute! Drew!
PETRIMOULX: ... in the early part of the investigation.
GRACE: Drew! is your earpiece working?
PETRIMOULX: It`s working. I can hear you, Nancy.
GRACE: OK. That`s good because that`s not anything even close to what I was asking you. I asked you about the incident -- remember all the protesters would be outside of George and Cindy Anthony`s house all the time, yelling at them, yelling at tot mom, who for a while was inside the house. And George Anthony went out there and pushed some of them back away from the property. Do you recall that, Drew Petrimoulx?
PETRIMOULX: I do.
GRACE: OK. On the new witness list, Drew, are some of those people that he pushed back. My question again to you is, what do those people have to do with the murder of Caylee?
PETRIMOULX: The theory is that they`re trying to show a pattern of behavior with George Anthony, is that if he was abusive towards these women, it`s possible that maybe he was abusive towards Casey Anthony during their relationship and that she suffered possibly from PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder.
GRACE: Whoa! I`m sorry. I couldn`t hear you.
PETRIMOULX: That is one of these experts...
GRACE: She`s suffering from what?
PETRIMOULX: One of the two defense experts is -- specializes in post- traumatic stress disorder. And there`s a theory that possibly they`re trying to -- they will try to...
PETRIMOULX: ... that Casey...
GRACE: ... him up on the screen! Take him in full! Drew Petrimoulx, I -- there you go. Drew, you and I have been on this case a long time, haven`t we. Isn`t that true?
GRACE: If anybody has post-traumatic stress syndrome, it`s you and me from listening to all the BS they are spouting in that courtroom! Are you trying to tell me with a straight face the defense is saying because George Anthony pushed two protesters back away from his property, that that somehow suggests he mistreated or abused Casey Anthony, tot mom, or Caylee, the baby? Is that really what they`re trying to say, and that she has post-traumatic stress syndrome? Are you kidding me? That`s why they`re calling these two witnesses?
PETRIMOULX: Well, we`ll have to hear what they say in their depositions. The prosecution will allow them to be deposed, and then we`ll see what their testimony is. But at this point...
GRACE: Oh! Oh!
PETRIMOULX: ... late in the game, with them bringing these two new expert witnesses, it`s...
GRACE: Just hold on!
PETRIMOULX: ... started a lot of speculation...
GRACE: I`m not -- I`m not...
PETRIMOULX: ... as to what they will testify to.
GRACE: I`m not even -- I`m not even to the experts yet, OK, Drew? Hold that thought. Unleash the lawyers, Renee Rockwell, defense attorney, Atlanta, Peter Odom, defense attorney, Atlanta, Eleanor Odom, senior attorney with the National District Attorneys Association in D.C.
Eleanor, I would be mad if they didn`t call these witnesses because once they try to put these two women -- I think they were ladies. They were out there. They were mad at tot mom, I`m sure. And they were yelling and screaming and -- so George Anthony pushes them back. And they`re going to actually try to tell a jury that tot mom had post-traumatic?
Dana, give me the stripper pole pictures, and give them to me now. Give me the push-up bra pictures. Give me the girl-on-girl kissing pictures. Give me tot mom urinating out in a parking lot pictures. I want them now. Have I ever called for those? No. Because I thought, to a large degree, they may not be relevant.
Eleanor, this -- these are not photos of a woman with post-traumatic stress syndrome! No!
ELEANOR ODOM, NATIONAL DISTRICT ATTORNEYS ASSOC.: No. Nancy, this is the oldest trick...
GRACE: Look at them!
ELEANOR ODOM: ... trick in the defense book.
GRACE: Look at them, Peter Odom! Look at them, Renee, because I`m coming to you next!
ELEANOR: Nancy, in my last death penalty case, guess what they alleged? Post-traumatic stress syndrome. I train prosecutors across the country. This is a common defense.
GRACE: OK. Let`s hear it, Peter Odom. And I`d like to see Peter as he explains this. Peter...
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy...
GRACE: ... post-traumatic stress disorder. Doesn`t look like she -- it looks to me like maybe she`s had a little bit too much to drink yet again. But she is not suffering from post-traumatic stress, dancing there in those hotpants with -- with -- no. She`s not stressed out.
PETER ODOM: Nancy, much of the state`s case...
PETER ODOM: ... against Casey Anthony is circumstantial. And a lot of it has to do with...
PETER ODOM: They`re going to allege that because she lied to police in the wake of the investigation, that must mean she`s guilty. All the defense is doing with this evidence is trying to show that maybe there`s another inference that can be drawn. It`s perfectly fair.
GRACE: What inference would that be, Peter Odom?
PETER ODOM: That she has post-traumatic stress disorder and that...
GRACE: From what?
PETER ODOM: ... maybe George Anthony was abusive.
PETER ODOM: They`re just trying to say that -- they`re trying to suggest...
PETER ODOM: ... properly that maybe another conclusion can be drawn.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You want to talk about George (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: Maybe she was stressed out because she drove around -- hold on! Maybe she was stressed out because she drove around town for about a week with her daughter`s dead body in the trunk. That would probably stress her out.
But Renee, how is it you can just go into court -- and this is rhetorical, OK? I`ve sat across the courtroom from you many, many times. How is it you can just go into court, march into court and suggest that George Anthony is somehow responsible in some weird, tangential way for all this? I`ve never heard a bigger crock of BS in my life! All George Anthony tried to do is find that baby.
And remember, tot mom always wanted to talk to her father because her mother wasn`t putting up with any of her BS. She could get over on George Anthony. He has a soft spot for Casey Anthony, tot mom. And now they`re going to use him? You can just go into court and say whatever you want to, Renee?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t think they`re going to try to do that, Nancy. But can you say death penalty? When you have a circumstantial case, all they have to do is...
GRACE: Can I say death penalty? Oh, yes, I can say death penalty!
GRACE: Because it`s not outlandish, like the theory of blaming George Anthony!
ROCKWELL: Blaming him for her having post-traumatic stress disorder or blame him for...
GRACE: First of all...
ROCKWELL: ... potentially, Nancy, for the death of the child. If you will let me finish...
GRACE: I don`t even know why we`re talking about it because she didn`t have it.
ROCKWELL: But Nancy, you`re not the expert. That`s why they`re bringing these experts in. And if they can convince one juror that maybe she didn`t do it, maybe George did it -- George is not on trial right now. She`s on trial. So if you have that one confused juror, then she walks, and that`s their job.
GRACE: OK. I get it. So your theory is on trying cases -- and I hope your potential jury pools are hearing this right now -- is just throw whatever you want out there, whether it`s a big, fat lie or not, and maybe some crackpot on the jury might buy into it.
Bethany Marshall, quickly, what is post-traumatic stress disorder? Nutshell, Bethany! Nutshell!
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Difficulty eating, sleeping and concentrating, tearfulness, flashbacks to the traumatic event, detachment and estrangement from others. People with PTSD are sad. They`re withdrawn. Casey Anthony looks very social in these pictures. This has more of an anti-social quality, which is...
GRACE: ... she looks social. I would use a completely different word.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: I am upset now. I`m completely upset. One, the media`s going to have a fricking field day with this!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did you say it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where do you come from?
GEORGE ANTHONY: This last year has been an emotional strain on our entire family, and including Caylee`s great-grandparents.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was the first Orange County detective to talk to 22-year-old Casey Anthony. Yuri says when they finally got permission to search the car, they opened it up and it smelled of death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you opened the can which contained the carpet sample, what was your reaction?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First I jumped back about two feet because the odor was strong.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At first glance (ph), you thought this may be the smell of a body or decomposition.
GEORGE ANTHONY: It`s a possibility, yes. I mean, it`s a possibility. I mean, maybe my daughter ran over something.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I referenced the car smell, she said two dead squirrels crawled up under the hood of the car, you know, and then they died in there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We obtained a squirrel and essentially allowed it to decompose on a control piece of carpeting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The squirrel surprised me because it didn`t smell anything at all like decomposition at all.
GEORGE ANTHONY: It was an overpowering smell, I`ll admit that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: As we finally approach the trial of Casey Anthony, AKA tot mom, in the murder of her 2-year-old little girl, Caylee, tonight we learn that more witnesses are going to be added to the defense witness list. It`s just before trial. These witnesses are supposed to have been given to the other side, the state, many, many weeks ago. Why not? We don`t know because the witnesses that they have included are witnesses that were there on the scene -- let`s take it in full, please -- when George Anthony pushed some protesters back from his yard.
Let`s go back to that moment in time. Drew Petrimoulx, what were the facts and circumstances surrounding that? What happened?
PETRIMOULX: Well, if you remember when this case was first breaking, there were a lot of protesters that would come and sit out in front of the Casey -- of Casey Anthony`s parents` house. She was in jail. There were many confrontations between George and the protesters. And on this particular night, one of the people got up on his yard. He felt like she was invading on his property, and he pushed her back a little bit. It wasn`t -- didn`t go to blows. It wasn`t a fistfight, but he physically pushed her back a little bit. There was a confrontation. There were many of them in the first -- beginning of this case.
GRACE: Joining me right now, special guest from Orlando, is Mark Lippman. He is the attorney for George and Cindy Anthony, well respected attorney in his field. Mr. Lippman, thank you for being with us.
MARK LIPPMAN, ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE AND CINDY ANTHONY: Thank you.
GRACE: Mr. Lippman, I can only guess -- I`ve tried to put myself in George and Cindy Anthony`s shoes where their grandchild has been murdered and their only daughter is charged with her murder and the evidence is strong. I don`t know if I were in their -- that I could even hear the evidence or accept it that it was strong. I would imagine that I would be trying to poke holes in everything rather than lose my daughter. How are they holding up?
LIPPMAN: They`re holding up very well. Thank you for asking.
GRACE: Good. Do people still come to their front yard and yell or drive by and stand around on the grass?
LIPPMAN: The drive-bys are -- there haven`t been people coming to their house and protesting, but the drive-bys have started again. The harassing phone calls have started again. And certainly, even my firm gets random e-mails from time to time or phone calls.
GRACE: Like somehow, you`re at fault.
LIPPMAN: Exactly. As we get closer to the trial, I imagine it`s going to escalate.
GRACE: I`ve got a question. And I`m not asking you where, but are they planning to stay in their home during the trial, or are they going to stay somewhere else?
LIPPMAN: We haven`t even discussed that, and I`m not sure. Certainly, I imagine they would be more comfortable in their home. But we don`t know where it`s lead if they do stay in their home.
GRACE: You know, just looking at them -- you know, a lot of people have had a lot to say about George and Cindy Anthony. Can you imagine having throngs of people outside your house? Look, whether you think tot mom is guilty or innocent, they don`t want to believe that. They don`t want to know that.
What about it Bethany Marshall?
MARSHALL: Well, they`re her parents. Their job is to protect her. They`re in a very difficult position. They`ve lost their daughter and their granddaughter. The fact that they are standing by Casey Anthony does not make them bad, it makes them parents.
And people who drive by this house -- it`s a form of vigilante justice and identifying with the victim, and they need to keep their distance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: George had access to the car where investigators say Casey hid Caylee`s dead body and to duct tape, the heart sticker and laundry bag found with Caylee`s remains. He also admits to being the last to see Caylee alive in the same clothes found with her remains.
GEORGE ANTHONY: My granddaughter had her backpack on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey was indicted on first degree murder charges based largely on forensic evidence recovered from her car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s no (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Air samples and hair samples in the reports that Casey`s lawyer and her parents say are inconclusive at best.
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m angry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. As the trial of so-called tot mom approaches, more witnesses have been added on by the defense, witnesses that suggest George Anthony is somehow culpable in some way. These witnesses are women or citizens that he pushed back off of his yard, away from his property during a time when the family was being thronged by people who were angry at tot mom for the murder of her little girl, Caylee.
I want to go back, before Caylee gets lost in the sauce, to Jean Casarez. For those of you who are not familiar with the case, describe the way in which the 2-year-old little girl was found.
CASAREZ: Oh! Was found. It was December 2008. And it was a location that was so close to the family`s home, an area very close to the elementary school. And a meter reader who had been in that area before saw a bag, a plastic bag. And he had a stick and he sort of looked at it, and he realized there was a skull, and he called 911. And that`s how her body, her remains were found.
GRACE: We are talking about 2-year-old little Caylee. Let`s see Caylee, if you can pull up those shots. Jean Casarez, as we take a look at this little girl who has captured the hearts of so many people -- the wild goose chase that tot mom led police on -- why? Describe it.
CASAREZ: It was 31 days. And you know who are going to be the star witnesses of this trial for the prosecution? It`s going to be George and Cindy Anthony because they lived those 31 days that they didn`t know where their granddaughter was and they wondered and they wanted to know and they couldn`t find out. They`re going to be the star witnesses. And what does the defense want to do with star witnesses? They want to attack their credibility.
GRACE: No, Jean, they don`t want to attack their credibility. They want to destroy them!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY: Just leave us alone, please. (INAUDIBLE) Do not follow us in the gate. Do not bother us when we`re standing in line. Let us go. Let us go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got within three feet of my daughter`s car and the worst odor that you could possibly smell in this world. I smelled that odor before. It smelled like a decomposed body.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pulled in the garage. Her exact words were Jesus Christ.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got a sick feeling for a second because the car was closed up. You could smell an odor. You don`t forget that odor. No matter what it is. You never, ever forget it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe there was something dead in there. I think I whispered out to myself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That smell took my breath away. I reached over to the passenger door. I opened the passenger door. I had to let this thing vent for a while. It was overpowering. I opened up the trunk. We had the windows rolled down. The sunroof opened. That gets in your house just like that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was in love with George.
NANCY GRACE, HOST (voice-over): She said George Anthony came to their house a lot and bought her 38-year-old twin sister presents.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. To Lekisha in Indiana. Hi, Lekisha.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. How are you doing tonight?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What is your question?
CALLER: The lord answered my prayers. My daughter`s father is home with us now from the nursing home, but he`s still not walking. But at least, he is blessed to walk with a walker. You know, he was doing a lot better than not walking at all.
GRACE: I recall.
CALLER: I have two questions and a comment. My first comment was, I notice today in the deposition in court that Casey was very fidgety, you know, moving around a lot. It seemed like she was not interested in what was being said in court. Do you think that she could have been that way because Jose wasn`t present in court today with her?
Then my next comment is, I feel by the end of this trial that they`re going to offer a plea to her where she will only end up spending 7-to-12 years and be eligible for parole after the time that she spends.
I would like to know do you agree with me that she may only serve 7- to-12 years with eligible parole? Because she is helping out with her own trial and getting all the paper work out for the high-priced attorneys.
Getting everything set up before they come in the courtroom. You know, she has a lot of high-priced attorneys on the team and they keep adding attorneys. They just added a new lady on there recently this month. That is all I have to say. My God bless you and your family.
GRACE: Lekisha, I really appreciate that. Lekisha in Indiana. I`m just looking at this video. It reminds me of me doing the same thing with the twins. Jean Casarez, was tot mom fidgety? What is the condition on a plea?
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Casey Anthony and Jose Baez in my opinion are professionally extremely bonded together. I see here come to life in that courtroom. I see her very engaged in that courtroom.
She has also changed in the time from the beginning to now. She is like a paralegal in that courtroom, but when he`s not there. There is a different demeanor. There`s no question. There`s a distancing that she has from her other attorneys.
As far as the plea deal? The state has to offer it. You know what? I don`t think that is going to happen.
GRACE: Why do you say that, Jean? I agree with you.
CASAREZ: I just think that the state would say we are seeking justice and justice is not in the form of a plea deal in this case. When remains were found in an area and bones were scattered all over a grassy marshy area. That is not justice to have this end in a plea deal.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Renee Rockwell and Eleanor Odom and Peter Odom. Eleanor, also, the practicalities of pleas. If it were -- while they were trying to find the baby`s body, yes, I could see at some point in negotiating.
There was something in it for the state. They could find the body. They could alleviate the family`s suffering. They could resolve the case. But she never stepped forward. he offered absolutely nothing to help the state. I`m sure the three of you recall that wild goose chase she took the cops on. Claiming she worked at Universal. Dragging them all the way over there through security, up and down the winding halls, only to finally get to where she works.
She said, I don`t work here anymore. The whole story that Zanny the nanny that stole the baby from her. All of that had to be flushed out and investigated. Every Zenaida Gonzalez in this country practically was looked at. So long story short, what`s in it for the state, Eleanor? Why plea now? They`ve done all the works. She has done nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are right, Nancy. Right now, the state has a good, strong case. There is no reason to plead this out. Let the jury make the decision and let the jury make the decision as to punishment. This is a heinous crime. It deserves the death penalty and it deserves to go to a jury.
GRACE: Ellie Jostad, what is the prosecutor`s theory as to murder?
ELLIE JOSTAD, PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, we heard in one of the earlier hearings that the prosecution is going to present that they believe that some sort of agent, likely chloroform, was given to Caylee Anthony so that she could not resist when the duct tape was put around her head. As you know, duct tape found wrapped around the lower jaw according to the state.
GRACE: OK. Peter Odom, any chances of a plea at this juncture?
PETER ODOM: Yes, I think that the state does have something to gain in a plea deal, Nancy. I disagree with the prosecutors. The state would really, in good faith, I think like to know exactly what happened for the piece of this young child.
And only Casey Anthony can give that. I believe that they should offer something to her. I mean, they might have a strong chance of a conviction, but they do not have a strong chance at the death penalty in this case. That is a long shot.
GRACE: I completely disagree.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not surprised you disagree.
GRACE: -- bounty hunter who offered to bail Casey Anthony out of jail second time after the first time. Leonard, remember everything that was found on tot mom`s computer?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: The neck-breaking situation. The inquiries about chloroform and I think there are a couple of other items. I don`t know remember exactly what it was. Let me comment on something about George and why he is being brought into this in my opinion.
The photos of George attacking those people or defending himself or whatever you want to call it is to show he has the ability to become violent. He has also got the ability to attempt to coerce somebody into doing something.
I think that Baez is going to put Anthony on the stand and George is going to throw himself on the sword and take the fifth every time that George is asked a question regarding his involvement with that child.
I think they are looking for a way to confuse the jury. George is the guy that`s going to fall on the sword and take the fifth to about 12 questions until the judge puts a stop to it.
GRACE: You know what? That is an incredible theory. To Mark Lippman. The attorney for George and Cindy Anthony, any trace to that?
MARK LIPPMAN, ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE AND CINDY ANTHONY: Whatever the defense plans to present as a theory is certainly their prerogative. The reason we got upset was when -- if any of these theories are prosecuted for whatever reason, we need to put a stop to the statements such as what Mr. Padilla said. If anybody starts believing them as fact, there is an issue. That is why --
GRACE: Wait a minute, are you saying that is not going to be a defense then?
LIPPMAN: I have no idea. I`m not part of their defense team. I only represent George and Cindy, but when somebody says my client murdered somebody and other people start believing it as a fact, that is where we have a problem.
GRACE: You know, Mark, I don`t think you have to worry about anybody believing George Anthony committed murder. No way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It paints a bad picture of the family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Emotions just takeover sometimes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You believe your child. You put faith in everything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t like the smell in the car. I`m being straight with you guys.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a tough day for us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Think about wanting to turn your own child in for whatever it might be.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is hard. It is quiet. The house is too quiet. Whatever these sightings are coming through and the photos that could be my granddaughter, I get excited. My hopes are up there. If it is not, they get deflated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The passenger taillight. She says here is the --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The focus is always on my granddaughter and always will be.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 911. What is your emergency?
CINDY ANTHONY: I found out my granddaughter has been taken. She has been missing for a month. Her mother finally admitted she is missing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is the address you are calling from?
CINDY ANTHONY: We are taking about a 3-year-old little girl. My daughter finally admitted that the babysitter stole her. I need to find her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your daughter admitted the baby is where?
CINDY ANTHONY: My daughter has been looking for her. I cannot find my granddaughter. She just admitted to me she has been trying to find her herself. There is something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today. It smells like there has been a dead body in the damn car.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live as the trial of tot mom approaches, a death penalty case in the murder of her 2-year-old little girl Caylee. Her body found just 15 houses away from the Anthony home. There right behind one of the schools that she had attended.
Well, now, we`ve learned the defense is bringing on new witnesses. The judge is between a rock and a hard spot. He absolutely will allow the new witnesses in. Why? Because if he doesn`t, the defense after conviction assuming there is a conviction, can then argue that the case would have come out differently otherwise.
They will have a whole new trial to deal with. Let`s talk about the evidence that is being challenged in court. The evidence of Voss. Voss is going to testify at trial that the air contents in the trunk of tot mom`s car could only have been given off by a dead body. What I am wondering about is the air samples from the trunk where they say that there were extremely high chloroform levels in the carpet sample. That the actually air in the trunk suggested a dead body had been in the trunk.
To Renee Rockwell. I`m talking about the air samples out of the trunk. It is a new type of evidence where you actually take the air and you analyze it. You know, the same elements that you see in chemistry class. They determine what is in the air in that trunk.
It`s a new type of test. Do I believe it? Yes, I do. If I were the judge, I don`t know if I would let it in because I would be afraid it would jeopardize what will likely be a death penalty conviction in this case.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes and if you let a little bit too much in, Nancy, you are trying the case again.
GRACE: You mean it will be reversed on appeal. That`s what you mean by that, right?
ROCKWELL: And you have to try it again if it gets reversed. But here you have a situation where just because there is a dead body in the trunk does not necessarily mean that she is guilty.
GRACE: Yes. You know, the fact that it is in her trunk.
ROCKWELL: Who else had access to the car? Who else had access to the car?
GRACE: Nobody else had it, Renee. Unless you want to count the time she left it in the parking lot and abandoned and had it towed. It had that smell to it while it was in the parking lot, but that is not going anywhere.
To Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaaskids Foundation. I want to hear your opinion on what is going on right now trying to get the evidence against George Anthony before the jury.
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Sure. This is one of the sleaziest defenses I`ve seen probably since the Scott Peterson defense. The defense is throwing everything at the wall as you said earlier hoping that some of it will stick.
And as Renee said, they only have to put doubt in the mind of one juror in order to win this case, effectively. So I think that they are challenging the judge. They are challenging the witnesses. They are challenging the evidence. They are challenging the science.
They are floating rumors that George may be involved in this and that he`s going to fall on the sword, which I think is probably pretty credible. They are just trying to get to the point where one person on the jury will go, while, gee, maybe there is something to that.
When, in fact, Nancy, everything that a serious observer is able to determine from watching this situation is Casey Anthony acted in malice and murdered her daughter and basically forgot about it until it was brought to the attention of the authorities by her who in fact said it smells like there was death in that car.
GRACE: You are absolutely right, Marc Klaas. Out of the whole kit and caboodle, George Anthony seems to be the most level headed and the one that would have the guts to go on the stand and fall on the sword as this being put for his daughter.
To Dr. Robert Kauffman, doctor of Internal Medicine joining us out of Atlanta. Dr. Kauffman, is there an innocent explanation of the high levels of chloroform found in the trunk?
DR. ROBERT KAUFMANN, M.D., INTERNAL MEDICINE: No. There`s no explanation of that. There`s no -- if I looked in the trunk of your car, where there`ll be chloroform in there? Of course, not.
That has to be put in there from somebody, but the human body can produce - bacteria can produce chloroform. You find it inside the body, but obviously, this was in the trunk not the body.
GRACE: And the fact that a cadaver dog hit on something in the trunk -- can you think of any other explanation for a cadaver dog hitting on a trunk other than a dead body was in there, Dr. Kauffman?
KAUFFMAN: No, absolutely not. If you ever smelled a dead body, it is pretty obvious. The dog`s sense of smell is so much keener than ours. They can pick it up earlier or through different things, but there is nothing else that would compare.
GRACE: Everyone now to "CNN Heroes."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you OK? Every week, I talk to women who are sleeping outside.
It is 17 degrees outside so I didn`t want you to get frozen. It is so much pain and suffering right on the fringes of our perspective. Do you need some help?
In Boston, despite all the medical resources for the homeless population, I was seeing few of the women using the services. For women who are poor or homeless or battered, to deal with a system of health care. It becomes overwhelming. They don`t have an address or a phone.
There are a lot of emotional issues, psychiatric issues. I just didn`t like the idea that they -- I`m Dr. Roseanna Means. I bring free quality health care to women and children in the shelters of Boston. The women come into the shelters to get warm and to feel safe and we are there.
Come on in. There is no registration. We`re not charging anything. If they want to come see us, we will use that moment to build that relationship.
This is my safety net. Here. The women learn to trust us as ambassadors of the health care system. All right, hon, God bless. Over time, we can teach them how to use the system as it was intended and eventually they do move forward.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I knew she really cared, I started wanting to take care of myself.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love these women. No matter what. You did a great job. That starts to get taken inside, that if I matter to somebody else, maybe I matter to myself.
GRACE: As we head to the death penalty murder trial of tot mom Casey Anthony, in the murder of her little girl, 2-year-old Caylee, is tot mom actually setting up a defense apparently planning to point the finger at her own father? George Anthony?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your gut feeling up until this point is something`s not right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s actually it`s June 16th --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 16th.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s the last time I saw my daughter and granddaughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today. It smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I got arrested on a -- whim today Because they`re blaming me for stuff that I never would do, that I didn`t do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have no idea what -- you don`t care about me. You don`t care about her. You don`t care about my granddaughter. You don`t care about nothing. Shut up. I`m talking. I am talking.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: George Anthony, unbridled in outrage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Goes without saying, our house is empty without both of you there. It`s empty. All the little things we took for granted, we miss them so, so much.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s exactly how I feel.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You solemnly swear or affirm the testimony in this matter will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Army Specialist Clay Farr, 21, Bakersfield, California, killed Iraq. Awarded bronze star, two purple hearts, combat action badge. Buried at Arlington.
Devoted to Army, resumed his training immediately after his fiancee, Sarah, killed in a car crash. Dreamed of being a cop since high school when he enrolled in the Sheriffs Explorer Program. Leaves behind parents, Patrick and Carol. Stepparents, Silver and Anthony. Brother, Chad and sisters, Amanda and Taylor. Clay Farr, American Hero.
Thanks to our guest, but especially to you and a special good night from Michigan and New York friends, Mary, Sharon, Mary and Kevin. Guys, thanks for being with us tonight.
And a special good night tonight from the New York control room. Good night, Brett, Dana. Who`s that poking out at the end beside Rosie? Hi, dear.
And happy fourth birthday to little Kentucky crime fighter, Wyatt. This beautiful baby raised by his grandmother, Sue, after the murder of his mother, Melissa, when he was just a baby.
Little Wyatt, you keep going strong, dear. Everyone, I`ll see you Monday night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.