Wednesday, May 11, 2011

Casey Anthony update: Day Three Jury Selection, Nancy Grace Transcripts

The Eleventh VictimMay 11, 2011 was the third day in the jury selection for the Casey Anthony murder trial.  HLN's Nancy Grace is not disappointing us as she is faithfully covering the trial each night.  We hope that she will see the case from beginning to end with her nightly updates.  May 11, 2011 saw a bit of strange activity in the case.  It was the day following Judge Belvin Perry's dismissal of the entire potential jury pool due to contamination, and when Judge Perry began reading the charges against Casey, she was an emotional wreck.  Casey and her lead defense attorney, Jose Baez did not sit next to each other, and one potential juror, Jonathan Green, made it clear he wanted no part of the jury and was willing to pay to be excluded.

At one point, Casey Anthony was led out of the courtroom and appeared ill-

Here is the latest update from Nancy Grace and the full transcript from the Casey Anthony case.

Death on the D-List (Hailey Dean)NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the case of 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminate when skeletal remains found in a wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct- taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.

With the murder trial of tot mom Casey Anthony under way, bombshell tonight. Tot mom wigs out in front of the jury panel and is escorted out of the courtroom by sheriff deputies, clenching and unclenching her hands, looking panicked, and of course, crying whenever the courtroom is packed.

And tonight, in contempt, a male juror fined by the judge after he approaches TV producers asking about the case and volunteering he wants out of there. Well, he got it, plus a $450 fine.

When tot mom`s defense complains again about the jury panel, saying they want more diversity, the trial judge offers to bring in residents of a nearby homeless shelter. And tonight, with us live, the juror thrown off the panel for discussing her part in the search for Caylee with other jurors.

Grandfather George Anthony now threatens legal action if tot mom points the finger at him for murder or molestation. And hey, it`s only day three!


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will read you the indictment.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Count 1, first degree murder.

GRACE: Turns on the waterworks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Count 2, aggravated child abuse.

GRACE: Looking miserable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Count 3, aggravated manslaughter of a child.

GRACE: Looking down, red nose.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Count 4, providing false information to a law enforcement officer.

GRACE: Absolutely dejected.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our next available pool has a higher rate of minorities that (INAUDIBLE) comes from next door.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does next door mean?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The sheriff has a homeless center. Find out how many of them have driver`s licenses.

CASEY ANTHONY: I`m going to (INAUDIBLE) right now.


GRACE: Good evening, I`m Nancy Grace, I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Tot mom wigs out in front of the jury panel and is escorted out of the court by deputies, clenching and unclenching her hands, looking panicked, and of course, crying whenever the courtroom`s packed.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do not discuss this case with anyone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t know that was a crime.

CASEY ANTHONY: Everybody talks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you do during lunch hour?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I talked to somebody.

CASEY ANTHONY: People really need to get a life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was it you did not understand?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t listen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She needs to start talking.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you trying to get out of jury duty?



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will judge you to be guilty and find you in contempt of court.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just wanted to get out of jury duty.

CASEY ANTHONY: I can`t even think straight at this moment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have selected a real nice hotel for you.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The food will be excellent.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You will not eat at the hotel every night.

CASEY ANTHONY: I`ve been eating bologna and cheese on occasion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re trying to make this as pleasant as possible.


GRACE: We are taking your calls live, along with our entire panel. Straight out to Clearwater, Florida. Standing by at the courthouse, Jean Casarez from "In Session." Jean, what happened? Tot mom wigs out, starts unclenching and clenching her hands. Reminds me when she saw that coverage of the discovery of Caylee`s body. Same thing, remember? She said her hands were getting hot and that suddenly, the handcuffs had gotten too tight, and she wigged out, nutted up, then, too?

JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": That`s right, and started hyperventilating. Well, today in court, Nancy, all of a sudden -- the jury pool had been dismissed. They were going to come in one after the other. And all of a sudden, she looked at her hands. It looked like she couldn`t move her hands. And Nancy, she didn`t have handcuffs on in court. But suddenly, the deputies came. They led her out, and it was like she could hardly walk or even move those hands as she left that courtroom.

GRACE: What brought it on, Jane? What was happening just before she nutted up?

CASAREZ: You know, Nancy, she`d her hands clenched so tight all day at that table, and it was like they were clenched and she couldn`t move them. She couldn`t get them apart. And she got concerned. And her attorney next to her tried to help work with her hands, but she left. She ultimately came back, but not before the judge said, We can have jury selection go on, if you agree, without her.

GRACE: We are taking your calls. Joining us right now is Michael Christian, senior field producer with "In Session." He has been in court throughout the entire proceedings. And I hope you`re digging in for a long time at that courthouse. And then, Michael, you get to move to the Orlando courthouse, where the testimony`s to start.

Everybody, Michael Christian, a long-time colleague -- he was with me at Court TV for over 10 years and is now at "In Session." Michael, first of all, let me ask you point blank. I understand that one of the jurors was thrown off the jury panel today because they -- this guy approached TV producers, I believe in the cafeteria -- that`s always where all the action is, Michael, in the courthouse cafeteria -- and starts asking questions about the trial and then is told by a responsible TV producer, Hey we can`t talk about it, and then comes back and asks some other questions, and then that very responsible TV producer alerts the judge and the juror is thrown off.

Now, would that TV producer be you, Michael Christian?

MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, SR. FIELD PRODUCER, "IN SESSION": I`m afraid it was, Nancy. Here`s what happened, Nancy.

GRACE: What happened?

CHRISTIAN: Very simple. We were having lunch in the courtroom, my crew and I, today in the cafeteria courthouse, and someone was sitting right behind us and saw our media badges, because we`re all wearing media credentials, and said something like, Who are you guys with? And I immediately said, Are you a juror? And he said, Well, I am but, I`m trying to get out of it.

Now, we are not allowed to talk to jurors. They`re not supposed to talk to us. And so I just immediately said, I`m sorry, we just can`t talk to you. I don`t want to get you in trouble. I don`t want to get ourselves in trouble. I thought that was the end of it.

A moment later, he stood up to leave the cafeteria, and at that point, he asked us a question about Casey Anthony`s defense, if we knew who was paying for her defense. Again, we all immediately said, I`m sorry, sir, that we can`t talk to you.

Now, he left. I didn`t recognize him, but my crew actually recognized him because he had been in the panel that had come in and been sworn in just before lunch. So at that point, we informed the court what had happened, and you saw what the end result was.

GRACE: OK. Back to Jean Casarez. Jean, will it never end? I mean, the jurors are told over and over and over, Don`t talk about the case. How many times have you or I, and now Michael Christian, been in the courthouse covering a case, and they come up to you and start talking about the case? You, Jean Casarez and Michael Christian, could get thrown out of the courtroom for good. That`s your job. They are thrown off the jury panel.

What else happened to this juror? What was the fine the judge levied on him?

CASAREZ: Well, it was $450, Nancy, and he could have thrown the juror in court -- in jail because that`s one thing that can come from contempt of court. But this juror had the unlucky position of just being instructed by the judge, and that`s an order from the judge. Now, yesterday, when we had the issue about a potential juror outside of the room that hadn`t yet been sworn in, she got off. But once you`ve been sworn in, boy, that`s tough.

GRACE: And of course, later on, you`re going to be talking live to that juror that was thrown off yesterday. She was actually part of the search for little Caylee. When we were all still looking for Caylee in the hopes that Caylee would still be alive, she got connected with Texas Equusearch. She volunteered to look for the little girl. And somehow in the middle of all this, she gets called in for jury duty. So we`re going to talk to her. She`s taking your calls in just a few moments.

But I want to go back out to Drew, Petrimoulx, also standing by there at the Clearwater, Florida, courthouse. Drew, I want to get your take. You were in court today. Who was tot mom doing when she nutted up and had to be taken out of the courtroom. And where did she go?

DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: Well, I think you kind of have to look at the whole day. She had been getting really emotional, especially when the judge was explaining the seriousness of her charges, that she was facing first degree murder charges...

GRACE: Whoa! Whoa!

PETRIMOULX: ... that the prosecution had requested the death...

GRACE: Wait a minute! Wait a minute! She`s not just now figuring out she`s facing murder one charges, all right? She`s been facing these for a long time. Why does she start crying whenever the jury -- the courtroom is packed? She doesn`t start crying when there`s one individual juror being questioned. It`s always when the whole panel is there, she starts crying. They got to give her the Kleenex. They got to pat her on the back, calm her down, you know, fix her -- the whole thing. Why? Why is it always when there`s a -- the theater`s packed?

PETRIMOULX: I can`t explain exactly what`s going on in Casey Anthony`s head, of course, but she did become emotional when the judge mentioned her charges. And then during this break, when the jurors were led out of the room, before they came in one by one, that`s when she became distraught. She looked sick. She looked pale. And she was led out of the courtroom deputy. She was out for about 15 minutes. She came back in and sat through the rest of the day. So I don`t think it was a serious ailment, but it had been a long day, she was getting emotional and I guess she was just overcome...

GRACE: A long day. A long day. Put him up! Petrimoulx, did you just say tot mom had a long day? You know what? I bet Caylee Anthony wishes she could have a long day. You know what? She can`t. She`s dead. She was murdered. So I really don`t want to hear about tot mom having a long day.

And I`m going to answer that juror`s question that asked Michael Christian who was paying for all this. We are. You, Petrimoulx, you live in the state of Florida. You`re paying for all of this. She`s going to go back to her private room in the health ward at the jail, where she can watch TV, check out library books, have visitors, have a rec room, have a canteen. Yes, a long day. I don`t see it!

Out to the lines. Benet in New York. Hi, Benet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, Nancy. I was wondering if somehow the spat between Baez and Casey was somehow staged in order to request yet another change of venue or for delay purposes tactics. That`s my question.

GRACE: Hold on. Hold on. Benet in New York, don`t go anywhere. Play me back that -- that -- what I was just seeing with her fiddling with her bangs. Jean Casarez, did she play with her hair the whole day? Every time I look at her, she`s fixing her bangs.

CASAREZ: You know, Nancy, I saw her adjust her hair. If you look at her hair, which has gotten so long, she ratted her hair at the back, so it had a little bump in it, which is actually...

GRACE: Oh, no!

CASAREZ: ... very much in style now, and not a ponytail.

GRACE: Not a Snooki thing? Jean, is she doing a Snooki?

CASAREZ: I don`t know, Nancy.

GRACE: Yes, I hope not. OK. Benet in New York, we`re going to get back to your question. And as a matter of fact, when we come back, I`ll play back that video for you, when tot mom has a feud with her lead defense attorney in court. And it`s going on today. She freezes him out. She refused to sit by him again today.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t feel I can fairly -- I`ve already prejudged three years ago.

CASEY ANTHONY: I`m frustrated.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you formed an opinion as you sit here today?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what is that opinion?


CASEY ANTHONY: They`re ignorant. And I`m angry.


CASEY ANTHONY: Come on! Let me speak for a second!


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey is a very effective liar.

CASEY ANTHONY: Are you kidding me?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: State of Florida versus Casey Anthony.


CASEY ANTHONY: They`re blaming me for something...



BAEZ: You`re acting like a 2-year-old.


GRACE: We are taking your calls. Back to Benet in New York. That was the tiff that you were talking about. Out to Jean Casarez, who has been in court all day today. Jean, that did not look like a staged fight to me.

CASAREZ: A staged fight? Well, I don`t think so, either. I mean, it was something that was inadvertent. It happened. Obviously, they`ve known each other for a long time and feel comfortable with each other.

GRACE: Well, I noticed that today in court, still she is not sitting by Baez, indicating a rift between them. They`ve always been very, very close. He`s been with her from the very beginning. But now they are -- she`s distancing herself from him in the courtroom.

Let`s take a look at what`s going on in the courtroom. With us tonight, Janine Driver, body language expert, author of "You Say More Than You Think." Take a look at the obsessive, over and over and over, arranging the pens, the papers, wiping off the table, shuffling the notebooks, the hair, all day with this. What`s going on? What`s happening, Janine?

JANINE DRIVER, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Nancy, these are what are called pacifier gestures. A pacifier is any time a piece of our body touches another piece of our body. It`s OK, I`ll get through it. It`s OK, I`ll get through it -- moving the water, moving the pen. This is decreasing her stress and anxiety. And what do you get from that? She`s letting us know that she`s fearful. We`ve got a lot of fear going on here and increasing anxiety.

GRACE: I want to you analyze, if you can, what does it mean when she is constantly in court today, the whole day -- nobody can even count the times she adjusted her bangs, adjusted her hair, got everything completely organized on the table. Yesterday she was wiping up imaginary water underneath a water bottle on the table. What does that mean?

DRIVER: There`s two concerns here. Number one, again, it`s that pacifier, an increase in stress, so she`s soothing herself. And number two, it`s also preening. Think about a girl going on a first date. What does the woman do? She looks at herself in the rearview mirror. The guy - - what do men do? They look at their cuticles, make sure their cuticles look nice. She`s preening herself for the jury to be all nice and pretty.

Now, keep in mind, though, when we put our bangs in front of our face, we`re trying to disappear. People who are depressed, people who are suicidal, they`ll often make their hair bigger and crazy, and they`ll often put bangs in front of their face.

So we`ve got this self-touch gesture, this preening to decrease her stress and anxiety. We`ve got preening to look pretty for us. And then also, an element of trying to disappear here. And when fear happens, fear is not about what`s happening yesterday, fear is always about an event in the future, an event in the future. Why did her hands get numb and hot earlier? Fear, fight or flight. The body -- the blood leaves our brain. We don`t fight or run with our head, we fight with our hands and we run with our legs.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your verdict could lead to the death penalty.

CASEY ANTHONY: Do you guys understand what I`m honestly up against?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defendant has entered a plea of not guilty.

CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t care. I will lie...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re pretty confident that you may be out of the woods (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Murderer! Murderer!



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Beyond every reasonable doubt.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You care so little for your child.

CASEY ANTHONY: I feel guilty about that.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lies, lies, lies.

CASEY ANTHONY: I feel extremely guilty, but I was under a ton of desperation.


GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Right now, out to Patricia Young. Patricia is a witness on the witness list, and amazingly, even though she was part of the search for little Caylee`s body -- she came in as a volunteer to look for Caylee way back, nearly three years ago, and somehow ends up in this jury pool. Hi, Patricia. Thank you for being with us.

PATRICIA YOUNG, DISMISSED JUROR: Thank you, Nancy, for having me.

GRACE: It`s nice to talk to you again. Now, I understand the defense actually has you as a witness, not so much for looking for Caylee`s body -- and we`re all familiar with your volunteer work trying to find the missing 2-year-old -- but because of a confrontation, a tiff you had with George Anthony around his house. What happened?

YOUNG: Wait a minute. I didn`t hear the whole question, Nancy.

GRACE: OK, sure. What happened between you and George Anthony?

YOUNG: Well, I was there protesting, and George had said get off his land. And I mentioned that we weren`t on his land, and that`s when he came over to push me. And that was the ordeal there.

GRACE: Patricia, why do you believe the defense wanted you to testify to that?

YOUNG: I don`t know if that`s what they want me to testify to. Matter of fact, I didn`t know that I was a witness for the defense because I had told them I did not want to be because of the way I felt about this case.

GRACE: Well, many court watchers and legal analysts believe that you are being called as a defense witness because of this incident you had with George Anthony in some attempt to show that George Anthony lost his temper and that somehow, he`s going to be a scapegoat in this case. But now you end up on the jury pool. We`ll hear about that when we come back.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defendant has entered a plea of not guilty.

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: You`re not telling me where she`s at.

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: Because I don`t (EXPLETIVE DELETED) know where she`s at. Are you kidding me?

CHIEF JUDGE BELVIN PERRY, CIRCUIT JUDGE, ORANGE COUNTY: This mean you must presume or believe the defendant is innocent.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The bombshell and most damning evidence in the autopsy report is that Caylee Anthony`s killer, allegedly her mother Casey, put several overlapping layers of duct tape over her mouth and jaw.


CASEY ANTHONY: I`m so beyond frustrated with all of this.


UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Judge Perry fined one potential juror $450 for contempt of court.

CINDY ANTHONY: Still believe my daughter.


PERRY: What was your purpose, sir? Were you trying to get out of jury duty?


UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A juror had talked to someone else about the case.

CINDY ANTHONY: I have faith. I have a lot of faith that Casey will be home with us soon.


GRACE: We are taking your calls. For those of you just joining us, today tot mom wigs out in front of the jury panel and has to be escorted out of the courtroom by sheriff`s deputies. Clinching and unclinching her hands. A nervous tick appearing on her face.

Her eyes filling up with water, her face turning red then pale. Just one of the many things that happened in court today but also out to you, Michael Christian, the judge offered to get jurors from a nearby homeless shelter. This after the defense complains again that they want more diversity on the jury.

What happened? And I understand he`s actually sending sheriffs to the homeless center tonight to find out who`s got a Florida driver`s license?

MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, SENIOR FIELD PRODUCER, IN SESSION, FROM TOT MOM COURTHOUSE: You know, every time a panel comes in, Nancy, the defense complains that it`s not too representative enough of minorities. That it`s too -- basically too Caucasian. Now Judge Perry has said over and over we`re not issuing these things. This is not based on race.

This is simply summonses are being sent out via computer. There`s no selection, there`s no intelligence involved. They`re just going out. But it is true that these panels have been predominantly white. So every time the defense objects to that the judge always overrules the objection.

Now Judge Perry is tweaking the defense a little bit because he mentioned this afternoon that -- or this morning that perhaps they`d like to send someone to the homeless shelter to find out who had drivers licenses because drivers licenses is the basis in Florida for who is summoned for jury duty.

Jose Baez didn`t say don`t do that. The judge gave him a chance and said, you know, do you really want me to do this? And do you want to tell me not to do this. And Jose Baez said no, I`m not going to say that. So in theory somebody is going to check and in theory there might be more minorities at the homeless shelter.

But again it`s Judge Perry tweaking the defense because of these repeated objections.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight out of Orlando, Mark Lippman, attorney for George and Cindy Anthony, a renowned defense attorney in that area. Mark Nejame, former attorney for Texas EquuSearch and expert in his field. Also tonight out of New York renowned defense attorney Alex Sanchez.

OK. Out to you, Nejame, what is the judge doing talking about going to the homeless center and bringing in jurors?

MARK NEJAME, ATTORNEY FOR TEXAS EQUUSEARCH: Look, he`s just -- Perry don`t play. The reality of it is that they are trying to make objections to set up an appeal. He`s calling them on their -- he`s calling them out. And there`s an old saying, be careful what you pray for you just might get it.

GRACE: You will surely get it.

NEJAME: He`s going to cut off every block of appeal that he can so that they don`t get away with some of the things they`re attempting to play.

GRACE: You know, Mark Lippman that`s exactly what I was saying when we were talking with our staff right before the show. Be careful what you ask for, for you will surely will get it. That`s a quote from Oscar Wilde.

And what the judge is saying is, OK, fine, you don`t like this panel? I`ll get you some people from the homeless center. They have drivers license. That`s a Florida criteria. What are you going to complain about then? What about it, Littman?

MARK LIPPMAN, ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE AND CINDY ANTHONY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, exactly that as Oscar Wilde said, you get what you ask for. It`s always been a complaint. Used to be by voter registration. They changed to it drivers license a few years ago.

We`ve had issues with that here in Orlando, we`ve had issues with it down in Broward County. It`s just something you have to contend with as an attorney.

GRACE: Mark Lippman, isn`t it true that typically a defendant want as jury that mirrors them. If you are a white male, you want white males on the jury. If you are a black female, you want black females on the jury. If you`re a white female you want white females on the jury.

Would you say that generally speaking that`s true?

LIPPMAN: Generally speaking that`s the theory. If it was me picking the jury I wouldn`t care what race or what sex they were all I would care about is I`m looking for the one that`s going to be contentious, the one that -- is going to not go with the flow and the one that`s not going to be unanimous with everybody else.

GRACE: Well, you know, Alex Sanchez, I think he`s right. I think that this case transcends gender. I don`t think it`s about race. I don`t think it`s about religion. I think it is about what happened to that child and I think nitpicking over the jury panel -- I don`t think in the end it`s going to make any difference who`s going to be sitting on that jury.

What do you think, Alex?

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, I think it does make a difference. I think it makes a big difference. First of all that judge`s statement is egregious because he`s leading some -- an ordinary person listening to that statement would believe that if you go next door to the homeless shelter there`s a bunch of blacks, and Hispanics and other minorities there and they`re all in that homeless shelter.

That`s the impression that he left. That`s number one. Number two, Baez should jump at the opportunity. Sure, get all those homeless people on there. Get them on the jury. If I was in Baez`s shoes I`d want as many homeless people on that jury as we could possibly get. So he may have the last laugh in this case.

GRACE: Why do you say that?

SANCHEZ: Because I think homeless people are -- have a lot of disturbing problems, they may have drug problems, they have mental problems, they have psychological problems. They may be -- may have been in jail, they may have very strong feelings against the government or the police.

Why wouldn`t you want somebody like that on the jury?

GRACE: Well, I got to tell you something, Alex Sanchez, I understand where the judge is coming from, but talking to the lawyers this is a death penalty case and you don`t say anything on the record that can jeopardize your case.

I`m talking about the judge, the defense, the state, anything that can jeopardize either a verdict or an appeal, and a statement like this, even if the judge was as Michael Christian said, tweaking the defense for complaining so much, you got to be really, really careful because, you know what? A lot of people are going to interpret this exactly the way you said it, Alex Sanchez.

SANCHEZ: Yes, this is a judge.

GRACE: Exactly what you`re saying.

SANCHEZ: This is not an ordinary --

GRACE: To say -- you want minorities, hey, we`ll go get them at the homeless center. Yes. Not good. Not good at all.

SANCHEZ: This is not -- this is not an ordinary citizen speaking. This is a judge. He carries a lot of weight. He should be more deliberate in what he says before a jury.

GRACE: And this is only day three.

Let`s get real for a minute, though, Mark Nejame. This judge has -- let`s see a shot of the judge, all right? As a matter of fact, I want to get the sound of what he said. We all know this judge. He has a pristine reputation. I can guarantee you this judge is not intending to say anything as some kind of a slur or an off-color comment.

Let`s hear what the judge had to say.


PERRY: I have been informed that the sheriff has a homeless center for the homeless in this area, and right now will have folks checked to find out how many of them have drivers license.


GRACE: I want to switch gears quickly and go to Mark Lippman. He is the attorney for George and Cindy Anthony and he`s a renown defense attorney in that area.

Mark, your client George Anthony is now saying that he is considering threatening legal action if he is portrayed as a killer or a molester. Now I don`t think anybody on this panel has a serious thought that George Anthony had anything to do with this child`s murder, her kidnap, or any molestation on tot mom or her daughter.

I just don`t see it. You know, George Anthony is the one that took this child`s death to heart. And nearly killed himself out of pure distraught depression. He was beside himself at living life without Caylee. And the thought that someone would now try to point a finger at him is very distressing.

LIPPMAN: It`s distressing to me personally, but as their legal counsel it certainly -- we`ve already made the statement, he had nothing to do with the death of Caylee. Certainly there`s never been any indication of any sort of sexual molestation, and I`ll be the first to say he`s never sexually molested Casey --

GRACE: It`s ridiculous.

LIPPMAN: Just the mere fact -- it`s absolutely ridiculous.

GRACE: I mean she`s pointing the finger at Lee and George. I mean come on. That`s crazy that she did that. But when you say that you`re considering legal action would that extend to tot mom if she says something like that in court?

LIPPMAN: No. Certainly. I mean everybody is entitled to their defense, everybody is entitled to their theory. And the legal action wouldn`t necessarily -- and certainly I say that we will take action with whichever we can take at whatever time and it makes sense to the defense attorneys but, again, they are entitled to their defense. They need to defend their client vigorously and that`s what we`re dealing with.



PERRY: The sheriff has a homeless center for the homeless in this area.

CASEY ANTHONY: What the hell is going on?

PERRY: Potential juror who is also listed as a witness summoned to jury duty.

GRACE: What do you make of Casey Anthony being free on bond?


GRACE: We are taking your calls out to Charlotte in Illinois. Hi, dear. What`s your question?

CHARLOTTE, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: I have two quick questions.


CHARLOTTE: The first one is, when this whole thing first started and she took them to the Sawgrass Apartments where she had been dropping off her daughter. Then they finds out that that apartment was empty for like five or six months and did Jose Baez come up with defense of accidental, how do you explain accidentally wrapping duct tape around the child`s head?

GRACE: Hold on. Hold on. You know what? You need to be a prosecutor. All right? Because you just gave the whole prosecution`s closing argument in a nutshell. Because if there`s an accident, I`d call 911. Just like everybody else on that jury would.

You don`t then go hide your child`s body 15 houses away in a densely wooded area and wrap duct tape around her head. No. It doesn`t go down like that.

And then also about Sawgrass Apartments, let me go out to Jean Casarez. Isn`t that true what Charlotte in Illinois said that she said she had dropped the baby off and this is where the babysitter lived but that apartment had been vacant for some time?

JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Yes. But here`s what`s even more. Do you realize that Zenaida Gonzalez, a Zenaida Gonzalez looked at that apartment like the week before but hadn`t rented it? It was vacant. But she had looked at it and she had filled out that form.

GRACE: And somehow, do you think tot mom got a mist on that form or saw it?

CASAREZ: That`s a mystery. We don`t know.

GRACE: And we may very well never know. The reality is that now there`s discussion tot mom will take the stand. I want to go out to Jo- Ellan Dimitrius, high-profile jury consultant who has consulted on many, many of the biggest cases in this country.

Jo-Ellan, what do you think of tot mom`s behavior in court today? Don`t you think her lawyers needed to tell her to quit doing that thing with her hair and the clothes and the clinching and ticking and -- that`s just got to stop.

JO-ELLAN DIMITRIUS, PH.D., JURY CONSULTANT: Well, certainly. But the problem is that even if they tell her that she clearly seems to be symptomatic of what`s called dissociative personality disorder. Otherwise known as multiple personality disorder.

She has all of the symptoms that indicate that. So as much as they can tell her that she`s not going to stop. She clearly, you know -- more intelligent members of that panel are going say, OK, well, she`s probably - - there`s some pathology there, and perhaps the lesser intelligent panelists are going to say she`s just nuts.

Anyway you look at it, I think jurors that walk into that courtroom are going see this behavior and they are going say this woman is nuts and she probably killed her child.

GRACE: Back to Patricia Young, a dismissed juror.

Patricia, you as we all know took part in the search for Caylee. You got in a little tiff with George Anthony. But you were called as a juror to this courthouse. You were thrown off the jury panel. Why?

PATRICIA YOUNG, DISMISSED JUROR, WITNESS FOR CASEY ANTHONY DEFENSE: Well, I couldn`t believe, number one, that I would be summoned there to become a juror in the Casey Anthony. I thought it was just for another case. I had no idea whatsoever.

GRACE: Did you talk to any of the other jurors?

YOUNG: Yes. I talked to -- I would say two or three, no more than that. And very little --

GRACE: What were you guys talking about?

YOUNG: Mentioned that -- I said, you know, well, hey, Casey Anthony is up in Clearwater. I thought it was in for Harrison, up at the courthouse in Clearwater. And I said, well, I never get picked for that because of going and searching for Caylee, and the run-in with George and so on.

So I didn`t have any idea, and we didn`t have time to talk back and forth. I talked very, very little.

GRACE: And it was only when you got home that you found out that the judge threw out the entire panel from yesterday, because of this seemingly innocent conversation.

Everyone, Patricia is taking your calls but very quickly to Dr. Janis Amatuzo, former chief medical examiner, author of "Forever Ours."

Doctor, thank you for being with us. I want to go back to the chloroform that was found in the trunk. I`d like you to weigh in on the chloroform found in tot mom`s trunk. Apparently those air samples are coming into evidence.

DR. JANIS AMATUZO, M.D., FORMER CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, AUTHOR OF "FOREVER OURS": Yes. I think the judge made a good decision. The issue here is that Dr. Vass, Arpad Vass, who did this work, has identified the chemical fingerprint of human decomposition. He`s identified some 478 chemicals.

But in addition to identifying the chemicals, it appears as though he has also identified the ratio between the chemicals. In other words, what amounts should be expected in relationship to one another.

And according to his own statement in his entire 19, 20 years of experience he`s never seen such a high spike of this particular chemical chloroform. So, I think the judge, according to his decision, really did his homework.

GRACE: With us is Dr. Janis Amatuzo.

To Dr. Doug Bremner, professor of psychiatry and radiology, author of "Before You Take that Pill."

Doug, thanks for being with us. Why would a prospective juror talk to other members of the jury pool or to media specifically about today, talk to the media even after they have been warned not to?

DR. DOUG BREMNER, PROFESSOR, PSYCHIATRY AND RADIOLOGY, AUTHOR OF "BEFORE YOU TAKE THAT PILL": Well, Nancy, this is obviously someone that wants to get off the jury panel, because they are looking at two months of living in a hotel and being sequestered away from their family. But I have to say it`s very immature behavior. I mean this is contempt of court. He could go to jail for that. And it really is no excuse. We all have a duty to do our jury duty.

GRACE: And I`m referring specifically to the young man thrown off the panel today who approached TV producers about wanting to get out of jury duty.


GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Tammy in New York.

Hi, Tammy. What`s your question? Excuse me. Ann in Florida. Hi, Ann. What`s your question?

ANN, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hi, how are you? Nice to speak to you.

I have been watching -- I`ve got a comment. I`ve been watching this trial, the jury selection, and every morning when the judge starts reading off the charges, she cries. It`s all about her.

GRACE: You know what, Ellie? I`d like to hear what you`ve got to say about this. You`ve been on the case from the very beginning.

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Right, Nancy, and the caller is exactly right. We`ve hardly seen any emotion from Casey Anthony in court. Usually she looks very professional, she`s paying attention, she`s talking to her attorneys. But she`s exactly right. Every time -- and I counted three different times that a new jury pool was brought in, 40 or 50 people, the judge started reading.

Here`s the case we`re talking about, here`s what the defendant is charged with, and that is when Casey Anthony would appear to start to lose her composure, start crying, start sniffling, wiping her eyes.

GRACE: What about it, Michael Christian?

CHRISTIAN: Absolutely right, Nancy. It`s happened three times with each new jury panel. And you know it`s fascinating because guilty or not guilty, those are horrible words to hear, to hear spelled out, the indictment and also the brief synopsis of what happened. That would be a horrible thing for anybody to hear. And it`s also fascinating because that`s the kind --

GRACE: Really?

CHRISTIAN: -- of a prospective juror --


GRACE: Well, isn`t it a coincidence that she only cries when she hears it in front of a packed courtroom? How come she`s not crying every other time, Michael Christian.

Come on, Michael. Don`t tell me --

CHRISTIAN: Because that`s when they read it.

GRACE: You know what? You`re off the jury. You know, you`re sapped.

CHRISTIAN: They read it in a packed courtroom. They go together.

GRACE: I must tell you. You`re sapped. I`m sorry.

CHRISTIAN: They read it in a packed courtroom.

GRACE: Michael, Michael, you of all people.

Let`s stop and remember Marine Sergeant Elisha Parker, 21, Taberg, New York, killed in Iraq. Awarded Purple Heart, Navy and Marine Corps Commendation, Combat Action.

Remembered for a beautiful smile and sense of humor. Loved running, music, working out, boxing, the bible. Favorite show, "Seinfeld." Favorite superhero, Spidey. Dreamed of naming his first son Peter after Peter Parker.

Leaves behind grieving parents Renee and Donna, sister Brianna, brothers Isaiah and Angie.

Elisha Parker, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you. And good night from Georgia friend, Kaye.

Isn`t she beautiful?

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp, Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.


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