Friday, May 13, 2011

Casey Anthony update: Sexual abuse, defense and jury selection extends to weekend

On May 13, 2011, the Casey Anthony case entered its fifth day of jury selection.  Judge Belvin Perry has made it clear that he wanted the process to be a quick one, but unfortunately, it seems to be much slower than planned.  Jury selection will take place on Saturday, May 14, 2011 and the defense has given clear indication that they are going to use sexual abuse in their defense.  The idea that Casey was sexually abused, however, doesn't necessarily indicate that the defense is planning on having Casey confess, but rather try to explain why Caylee was missing for 31 days while Casey never said a word to her family.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the case of 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminate when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct- taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple bagging little Caylee like she`s trash!

With the murder trial of tot mom Casey Anthony under way, tot mom`s defense revealed. True or not, tot mom claims she was sexually molested as a child. How is that relevant to 2-year-old Caylee`s murder? Tot mom`s likely targets, father George and brother Lee Anthony. We learn jurors may be asked to actually smell the stench of death from inside tot mom`s car trunk.

Bombshell tonight. Tot mom`s defense hones in on claims tot mom was abused, quote, "verbally, emotionally and sexually" as a child. But she just now remembers it, only remembering it or referring to it after 2-year- old Caylee disappears?

And are stealth jurors trying to sneak onto the jury for fame and fortune? In the last hours, one juror thrown out after his mug shot and a true crime Web site emerge. Tonight, confirmed, member of tot mom`s defense marries a serial killer.

George, Cindy and even Lee Anthony remain no-shows in court, as the judge vows to work over the weekend. As tot mom softens her look in court and continues to freeze out lead defense attorney -- won`t talk to, look at, sit next to, Jose Baez after their in-court feud -- one juror begins vomiting and goes home sick. But is it really food poisoning, or could it be an allergic reaction to tot mom?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guilty or not guilty?




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you consider sexual abuse, physical abuse, verbal abuse?

LEE ANTHONY: I love you!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Possibly be a mitigating comprehensive immigration reform.



LEE ANTHONY: CMA, I am so proud of you!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I was 15. It started just before I turned 12."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Has anything extremely bad ever happened to you that you`ve never told anyone?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "He would be sitting on the floor in the front of my bed, staring at me."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you evaluate whether someone`s telling the truth?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: By looking at them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Effective liar.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think I`d use the word diabolical to describe the way she lies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could you also lay aside your own personal feelings?



GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Tot mom`s defense hones in on claims tot mom was abused, quote, "verbally, emotionally and sexually" as a child. But she only remembers it or refers to it after 2-year-old Caylee disappears?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you feel about the death penalty?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you cause any injury to your child, Caylee?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jurors that have an agenda are very dangerous people.

JESSE GRUND, CASEY`S EX-FIANCE: Casey and Lee were at the house alone together and Casey -- and Lee attempted to have sex with her.

LEE ANTHONY: I need you to know I will never forget the promise that I`ve made to you!

GRUND: Cindy Anthony is not mentally stable, and George is starting to come apart.

GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: You think I`m kidding? I`m not.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mother and father failed to protect her as a child.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is your daughter in a better place?

CASEY ANTHONY: No, she`s not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No more lies. What happened to Caylee?

CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t know.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Not only did she say I was lying, but when I explained everything, her reaction was literally like a knife in my chest - - So that`s why you`re a whore."


GRACE: We are taking your calls. But right now, straight down -- we are live in Florida at the location of tot mom`s jury selection for her murder one trial. Straight out to Robyn Walensky with WDBO. Robyn, a lot happening in that courtroom, but I understand that now they are really honing in on the allegations that tot mom was emotionally, verbally and sexually abused as a child. Tell me.

ROBYN WALENSKY, WDBO: That`s right, Nancy. They are throwing everything out there, the defense. They`re going to say that she was emotionally abused, that she was sexually abused. I mean, you name it, they`re throwing it out there. And I guess they`re going to see how this evolves. But it`s definitely going to be -- you know, at the end, if she`s convicted, they`re going to try to get her off the death penalty.

GRACE: Wa-wait! Wa-wait! Robyn, I need a shrink right now. Straight out to Wendy Walsh, Dr. Wendy Walsh, psychologist, expert. Wendy, show me one person that doesn`t think their mother, their father, their grandmother, for Pete`s sake, their grandfather verbally or emotionally abused them. I will never forget when my grandmother made me walk out and pull the switch down off the tree and give it to her so she could swat me on the bottom of my legs. Yes, I remember it. Oh, the pain and suffering. So that`s the defense?

WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: Right. Does that make you go on and murder your 2-year-old? I don`t think so. So the real question is, of course, people do get yelled at all through their childhood, and we do know that it affects people differently. But does this give you license to break the law? I think they`re looking for some sympathy from the potential jurors, and that`s about it.

GRACE: Straight back to Robyn Walensky with WDBO, joining us from Florida. So Robyn, they`re focusing in on a defense that tot mom was verbally -- and I`m quoting, "verbally, emotionally or sexually abused as a child." But let me get this straight. The first time she ever either remembers it or refers to it is after her 2-year-old little girl goes missing? Then suddenly, she starts talking about it to boyfriends, live- ins, writing jailhouse letters about it? That`s when she remembers the molestation?

WALENSKY: I mean, Nancy, this is all after the fact. I mean, if it really did happen, OK, so what? What does that have to do with the murder of her 2-year-old? There are people that are murderers who were never sexually abused and there are people that are sexually abused who have never been murderers. In my mind, it`s just totally irrelevant. It`s an absolute sympathy plea.

GRACE: And also today in court, to Natisha Lance, also joining us there in Florida. We are live on the scene. Tot mom softens her look in court today. She is wearing a ruffled shirt. Hold on. Wait a minute. There she is. There we are today. And she`s got those bangs pulled back.

Now, up until today, she`s been pulling the hair out of her eyes like she`s Cousin Itt. I don`t know if you`re too young to remember Cousin Itt, but it was this creature with really long hair that would cover the front of its face. So somebody finally got her to pin that hair back. What else has been her demeanor in court today, Natisha?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, she has been a bit fidgety again today, playing with her hands a bit. She`s also been taking a lot of notes. I guess they have taken note of not speaking into the microphones when they`re at that desk. But also something interesting here, Nancy. She`s not sitting by Jose Baez. She`s sitting by other attorneys and communicating to them, instead of him.

GRACE: You know, Liz, let`s pull that sound off her in-court feud. Oh, there we go with the hands! With that in-court feud she had with Baez.

Unleash the lawyers. Everybody, everyone on this panel is taking your calls live, including our experts. With us tonight out of Houston, high- profile lawyer George Parnham. Also with us, out of Vegas, renowned attorney Richard Herman.

So Richard, what do you think -- how`s the jury going to react when the defense turns up at penalty phase? She was molested, tot mom was molested as a child. They`re obviously going to blame George or Lee Anthony, OK? That didn`t happen. I`m just telling you right now it didn`t happen. That`s going to be the defense? How`s that going to play, Herman?

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it`s going to play this way, Nancy. Baez blew the deal. His incompetence blew it. They should have gone for that from the beginning. They should have gone with a diminished capacity defense in this case. When you don`t do that, when you say you`re innocent, and then in the mitigation phase look for the jury to show you some sympathy, you have no credibility left with the jury. It`s not going to work.

GRACE: And to George Parnham -- everyone, as you`ll recall, George has represented a lot of high-profile defense -- defendants, including Andrea Yates. George, what about the concern jurors are going to have that she just finally remembers the molestation or refers to it for the first time ever in life after her daughter is murdered?

GEORGE PARNHAM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY IN ANDREA YATES CASE: I think that`s a deep concern as far as credibility of the evidence is concerned. Obviously, this is issue -- an issue for mitigation during the penalty phase of the case, as opposed to being a defense to the accusation of capital murder. But it sometimes strains the credibility of either party when, at the last minute, these accusations are made.

GRACE: And today, George and Richard, the judge was really doing a backflip in court to rehab some jurors, jurors that say her mental maturity, her age, her dependability at the workplace -- that has nothing to do with death penalty. And the judge (INAUDIBLE) Wait, wa-wait, wa- wait! Let me tell you, juror, this is something you can consider if we get to penalty phase. (INAUDIBLE) the judge to do (ph), he`s trying to save every single juror, the judge vowing to work into the weekend.

Hey, take a listen to this in-court feud between tot mom and her lead defense attorney, Jose Baez.




BAEZ: You`re acting like a 2 -year-old.


GRACE: And of course, now, after insisting that the microphones be removed from the courtroom -- they haven`t been -- lead defense attorney Jose Baez says, yes, that never happened. Hey, Jose Baez, we heard it, OK? We know it happened.

Out to the lines. Ginger in California. Hi, Ginger. What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, ma`am. Thank you, Nancy, for all that you do. We all appreciate it.

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is concerning Casey Anthony`s grandfather. This would be the person that Caylee sits on his lap and calls him Papa. I want to know how he`s doing through this, and if they have actually told him everything that has gone on.

GRACE: Good question. To Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer, who`s been on the story since day one, along with the rest of us. Ellie, what do we know about Caylee`s great-grandfather?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right. Right. Well, we don`t know a lot about him. This is Cindy`s father. He is in this nursing home. And you`ll remember, one of the things that other family members alleged was that Casey Anthony actually took money from an account that her grandmother had, that money intended to pay for the great-grandfather`s care.

GRACE: There you see a shot of Caylee`s great-grandfather, and tot mom is actually accused of looting his and the great-grandmother`s accounts, their money accounts, even stealing from them. Take a look at that. Take a look at that little girl who is the heart of this case.

Also today, one juror starts vomiting and goes home. Is it really food poisoning, or is she just extremely allergic to tot mom?



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Possible penalties in this particular case is either death or life imprisonment.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone has said something so outrageous...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "It started just before I turned 12, when I told my mom about it two years ago."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: History of sexual abuse.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "She made excuses."

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: There was a bag of pizza for what, 12 days in the back of the car.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How concerned are you about the stealth juror, the juror that is there to write the book?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jurors who have an agenda are very dangerous.

LEE ANTHONY: Casey began to break down and cry. She said, Lee, do you want to know the truth?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I think my dad used to do the same thing to me but when I was much younger."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`ve already made it up and they know what lies to tell during the questioning.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mother and father failed to protect her as a child.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Maybe that`s part of the reason why I have so much anxiety with my parents."


GRACE: We are taking your calls, this as we confirm a member of tot mom`s defense team is, in fact, married to a serial killer on death row. I`m talking about Rosalie Bolin.

Straight out to Ellie Jostad. Ellie, it`s my understanding that she had four small children, I believe four daughters, and actually gave up custody in order to marry a serial killer on death row, and lost her job at the public defender`s office to marry a serial killer?

JOSTAD: Yes. She`s married to this guy, Oscar Ray Bolin. He`s convicted of three murders of young women, women he abducted from places like a shopping center parking lot. Also, she was married to a very prominent Tampa attorney, who she divorced to marry this guy.

GRACE: Now, let me get this straight. It`s my understanding that Bolin had eight separate trials and killed, viciously killed three women, including a high schooler...

JOSTAD: Right.

GRACE: ... and raping them. After eight trials, they get all the convictions. He`s currently on death row. They got married over the telephone. Explain to me the facts surrounding the murders and how she managed in her own mind to fall in love with a serial killer and how the heck she ends up on tot mom`s defense team.

JOSTAD: Right, Nancy. Well, she is a mitigation specialist. And she apparently met him in prison while she was doing mitigation work. As you explained, he kidnapped that 17-year-old girl from a parking lot. He abducted another 26-year-old woman, stabbed her, beat her, dumped her body in a wooded area. And apparently, when Rosalie Bolin first met her husband, she said, I`m going to save your life. She`s trying to prevent him from being executed.

GRACE: OK. Let me go back out to our shrink, Wendy Walsh. But first, I`m hearing in my ear I`m just getting Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation joining us out of San Francisco. Marc, you see what`s happening in the courtroom. You lived through the same thing for the trial of the killer of your daughter, Polly.

Explain to me why George and Cindy Anthony, and Lee Anthony, who has always been her devoted brother, are not in the courtroom during jury selection. The judge has said they could be. Think it`s got anything to do with the fact that tot mom`s probably going to point the finger at George and Lee Anthony for molesting her, which is not true?

MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: I`m not sure why they`re not there, but I understand that the defense is asking that they not be allowed into the courtroom...

GRACE: They did ask that, but the judge overruled it, Marc. They can be in there, if they want to.

KLAAS: Well, they should be in there. But you know, we`re learning a lot about this family unit, where this very high-stakes gambit to somehow save her, she`s willing to throw her entire family under the bus. I wouldn`t want to be near her, nor any defense team that has a serial killer groupie on it. This is unbelievable.






UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This family is united.

CINDY ANTHONY: We`re falling apart.


GRUND: George is starting to come apart at the seams.

GEORGE ANTHONY: If you want don`t to be knocked down, get out of my way!


GRUND: Cindy Anthony.

CINDY ANTHONY: I got (ph) prepared (ph) for this.

GRUND: ... is not mentally stable.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: History of sexual abuse.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "When I told my mom, her reaction was, So that`s why you`re a whore."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that true, yes or no?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes or no the way you like it!

CINDY ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE) quit publicizing that stuff.

GEORGE ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE) my granddaughter!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that`s all that`s important.


GRACE: We are live there in Clearwater, where the jury selection for tot mom`s, Casey Anthony`s, murder one trial is going down. We expect closing (SIC) arguments to come as soon as jury selection is over. Those closing -- those opening statements will take place back in Orlando, in Orange County. This jury will be sequestered and bussed from Clearwater to Orange County, and they will remain there sequestered throughout the duration of the trial.

We are taking your calls live. But I want to go back very quickly -- joining me right now is Levi Page, radio host of "The Levi Page Show," who`s been on the case from the beginning. Levi, we had a juror actually get sick, start vomiting -- I guess it was vomiting -- vomiting and had to leave the trial today. I`m assuming it really was food poisoning and not that he/she is just allergic to tot mom and her defense team. What happened?

LEVI PAGE, INTERNET RADIO HOST: You`re exactly correct. She was complaining that she was sick, and she was -- left early. And you know what? Who could blame her from being allergic to tot mom, Casey Anthony. She`s an evil, narcissistic individual who`s thrown her mom and dad under the bus. You know, they`ve been covering for her from day one, making excuses for her. Now that she doesn`t need them anymore, she`s flicked them under the bus, under the side. And it`s a shame. And we`re seeing an evil, psychopathic narcissist right in front of our eyes!

GRACE: Well, you know what? I want to go to Leonard Padilla to follow up on what Levi Page is saying. Leonard -- as you all know, bounty hunter out of Sacramento, California. I`m sure there`s no love lost, Leonard, between you and the Anthony family. But you and your team were in the home following tot mom`s bail-out. In fact, you bailed her out on those initial bad check, forgery charges.

And what do you think is going to be the reaction from George, Cindy and Lee Anthony when it comes to fruition that she is blaming them for emotionally, verbally and sexually molesting her as a child?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, George himself won`t have any comment on that. He`ll just ride out the storm. Cindy will either be very upset, or she will just kind of go along with it because George is the one that`s going to take the heat. As I said -- remember when we were talking about George falling on the sword? It`s all going to be decided by whether he accepts blame for the child`s death or not.

GRACE: Well, I can tell you this. George may let her blame him, but I don`t think George Anthony is going to lie under oath.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m not in control over any of this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had been crying. Now, it`s not bawling, mind you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know of anyone --


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- who has been the victim of any physical or sexual assault?



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I woke up night after night with my sports bra lifted over my chest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The explanation for the bizarre behavior of Casey Anthony.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sexual abuse, physical abuse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sometimes it seems like she lies just to lie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This went on for over three years.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I finally stood up to lee and I told him, if he ever came in my room again, I`d kill him.


GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Robert Hirschhorn, high profile jury consultant. Robert, we have noticed in court not only tot mom`s unusual behavior, constantly rubbing her hands, looking at them as if they are alive, you know, turning red, and digging into her hair, constantly. Not just once or twice but over and over and over.

We`ve also seen the freeze out between tot mom and her lead defense attorney, Jose Baez. She will no longer look at them, speak to them or sit next to him in court after their in fife feud court the other day, which was caught on microphone. What message does that send to the jury?

ROBERT HIRSCHHORN, JURY CONSULTANT: Terrible message. I don`t know what`s more dysfunctional, this family or this trial. If she`s acting out like that, the jury`s going to read into it. It will not inert her benefit.

What she has to try to do is communicated a positive message to that jury because she is fighting -- as you know, she`s fighting for her life. If she wants to try to get a fair trial and a good jury, she has to act the role and act the part. So far, doesn`t look like she`s doing it.

GRACE: Well, and another thing, Robert Hirschhorn, I recall -- you know, in any jury trial, there`s a lot of stress. I mean, it can even be a shoplifting trial. There`s a lot of stress. You`re striking a jury. You`re trying to put out truthful testimony.

You`re juggling evidence, witness statements, jury charges, the whole shebang. There`s always stress, but I recall trying cases not only shoplifting, bank robbery, child molestation, murder, you name it.

I would always have my investigator sitting next to me, shoulder by shoulder. Even if we would disagree over something we would never talk about it in court, never, ever because that`s a do or die situation. You`re at the plate.

It`s time to hit a home run. Everything else is put aside. If you want to fight about a witness or this went wrong or that went wrong or you did this, no, I didn`t, do you that after the court day is over and you work it out so you can start fresh the next morning. Have you to be a cohesive team. They are not. Why? Why?

HIRSCHHORN: Well, here`s part of the problem. You`ve got -- this is a revolving door of lawyers and consultants. What they have in mitigation expert sitting at table during jury selection is beyond me, other than the fact that she volunteered her time and wants publicity, which, of course, she`s getting.

I`ve been involved in two dozen death penalty cases. I`ve worked with great mitigation specialists. Never has there been one sit agent the table with us during jury selection. What`s going on, Nancy, this is a dysfunctional defense right now. They`re not working together as a team. You`ve got this fighting between the lawyer and the client.

The lawyer`s got enough aggravation. The judge is on his back. The prosecutor is, you know, giving him a hard time. There`s media all over the place. The last thing you want is having problems with your client as well.

They need to get their client under control and if they don`t, they`re going to be running a serious risk their client could be facing the death penalty.

GRACE: You know, Robert Hirschhorn, they took a big step in improving their image today by apparently getting some bobby pins for tot mom to get that hair out of her face. I want to go inside Florida`s death row. What do we know about it?

If she`s convicted, where will she be living? We take you inside Florida`s death row. Now, to Natisha Lance, you have studied this, the cell is 6-x 9. Let`s see the photos. What`s the schedule, Natisha?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, ON THE SCENE FROM ORLANDO FLORIDA: Well, the schedule, she gets three meals a day. That first meal for breakfast starting at 4 a.m. then she gets lunch at about 10:00. Dinner is about 4:00 in the afternoon.

Now, some of the things she`ll have access to, Nancy, she gets aerobics, inmate fitness, yoga, access to library books. Now here`s another thing, she will have a 13-inch TV in her cell.

Now, every hour the jailers who are there will count each and every inmate. Any time Casey Anthony is moved, she will be handcuffed.

GRACE: Wait a minute. Did you say she gets to go to yoga and fitness and the library every day? I don`t get to go to yoga and fitness and a library every day?

LANCE: That is an option for her.

GRACE: They have yoga on death row? What -- they got pilates going on?

LANCE: No pilates, but we did see yoga that was on there.

GRACE: How do you know it`s not pilates? How do you know that?

LANCE: It wasn`t listed. It says yoga.

GRACE: OK, what do we know about the orange -- you`re seeing right now our look inside Florida`s death row. But what about the orange county jail cell where she will be for the duration of the trial? Once we get the jury selection -- let`s see orange county, Liz. Fire it up for me. What do we know about the Orange County conditions?

LANCE: This is a 12-x 7 foot cell, a sink, toilet, a bed in this cell. She gets one hour a day for either exercise, an open area there. She can also take a shower in that time. She also has access to a commissary and also library books that the jail and she`s also in protective custody there.

GRACE: Also with us right now, joining us from D.C., Aaron, he is an expert in body language, author of the "The Knock of Body Language."

Aaron, thank you for being with us. Take a look at this video. I just can`t -- I keep looking at her and her whole appearance has changed and the constant picking at the hair. What is that?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So we see this self-touch gesture, this constant --

GRACE: The what? The stealth gesture? Did you say that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, the self-touch gesture.

GRACE: Self-touch gesture. OK, go ahead.

AARON BREHOVE, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: When we see these self-touch gestures it`s manipulators, helping us relieve anxiety. They might be --

GRACE: It`s making me more anxious. How is it going to play to the jury that she`s constantly picking at her hair, fingernails, biting her fingernails, adjusting her shirt?

BREHOVE: Well, his is very bad for her. Looks like she has some clothes somebody suggested she wear and gives her a different look, probably a better look to be in front of the jury, but they`re not working on her body language that well.

You see her today she was walking by different tables, touching them. She has her elbows everywhere. She really needs some work on what she`s doing with her non-verbals.

What she`s doing with her body because it`s coming across as arrogant at point, nervous and a lot of emotions you don`t want to see here. You want to see somebody that`s submitting to the court.


GRACE: Also, joining us today a special guest John Guinnaso, Scott Peterson juror, and co-author of "We the Jury Deciding the Fate of Scott Peterson."

John, thank you for being with us. We heard today -- we got a stealth juror, a juror we later find out has a mug shot and has been doing true crime postings and you know, suddenly remembered it all during jury selection. What about that? Would people try to sneak onto a jury?

JOHN GUINASSO, SCOTT PETERSON JUROR, CO-AUTHOR OF "WE, THE JURY": Absolutely. I know for the Scott Peterson trial, as we went -- as we went down for every day going to jury duty, I know I would be on the case, there were people that wanted to be on his jury.

Those are the people that will actually be the first ones not to be on the jury. If they do somehow -- someone gets on the jury, they will go ahead and break the rules that the judge has set for them.

One of the other jurors will expose that individual because they all want, you know, to make sure it`s a fair trial for the defendant.

GRACE: John, what was it like being sequestered? You guys I don`t think even get to see your family, did you?

GUINASSO: No. We were -- there was no family contact. We were cordoned off on a floor of a hotel under the watchful eye of deputies. We lost a lot of our everyday rights.





UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A little emotion for her missing little 2-year-old daughter, Caylee.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s the one that`s missing.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s the one we need to have returned to us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m trying. It`s the first time that I truly, truly broke down. Hearing about the fact that mom was making chili and there was probably a bunch of people at the house. It hurt and I`m still recovering from that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She did this during a time when Caylee was missing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The focus is on Caylee.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My second focus is you.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ll be fine. I`m fine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pick up your hand and say, this is us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m the ring finger. Caylee`s the pinkie finger.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You still have two fingers.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The incredible story of Rosalie Martinez.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you say whacko?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No one can understand a wife and mother who would take such an unthinkable step.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, honey, how are you? Did you have a good trip?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A rapist and vicious murder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A man who murdered one young woman and awaits retrial for killing two others.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Convicted killer on death row.


GRACE: And now the defense specialist on the tot mom`s defense team we confirm is married to that serial killer currently on death row. You are seeing video of Rosalie Bolin and her husband on death row, Oscar Ray Bolin Jr.

I want to go now to Dr. Stanton Kessler former medical examiner, forensic pathologist joining us out of Columbia, South Carolina. Doctor, thank you for being with us.

Tot mom seems to be suggesting she was sexually molested as a child. Is there a way to go back and look at her medical records as a child to see if anything corroborates her being sexually molested as a child?

DR. STANTON KESSLER, FORMER MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGY: I would have assumed they would be a sexual assault reports and forensic evidence she was molested when she was a child. Without that, it`s hearsay evidence.

GRACE: What I`m saying there is no police report. There is no report. What I`m saying is, would a pediatrician have been able to tell if she had been sexually molested as a child?

KESSLER: There may be reports of that, but it would have to have been something that was looked at by a pediatrician. Someone has a lot of chronic inflammation down there or a lot of chronic you know, cystitis or something as a young child would make you --

GRACE: Chronic urinary tract infections, chronic cystitis, as you say, lack of a hymen as a child, red, inflamed, bleeding. That kind of evidence, if she was somewhere as a child up to 15, 16 years old could support this theory, could it not?

KESSLER: It could, but, you know, you have to realize when a child is very young, you tend to see these things. When they get older, you don`t. They get more mature. Sexual organs get larger and the trauma is not as evident sometimes.

GRACE: George Parnham out of Houston and high profile lawyer, Richard Herman out of Vegas. So George, Richard, I`ll start with you first.

Richard, if the state wants to bring in the theory at death penalty phase, sentencing phase that she was molested as a child, without her taking the stand, how are they going to do it?

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, I think she`s going to have to take the stand at that point, Nancy. But you have had shrinks on over the years that have said time and time again that children suppress these events.

They suppress them and come on later in life. You`ll have experts get up there and say she was molested but repressed. Nancy, don`t bet against George Anthony having a breakdown on the stand. That will be very powerful for a mitigation.

GRACE: I never said George Anthony wouldn`t cry on the stand because I would, if I were him. But I don`t see --

HERMAN: He`ll admit it.

GRACE: There`s nothing to admit! Don`t put --

HERMAN: That he molested her.

GRACE: Don`t, don`t go there. It`s not on me. I`m not saying that. You know what, fine, you`re the one that`s going to answer the legal summons when it comes in court because I`m not going to hear that about George Anthony or Lee Anthony.

HERMAN: That`s my opinion.

GRACE: You just keep that and it will be even more precious if you keep it to yourself. OK, what about it, George Parnham, how could that come in without her taking the stand?

GEORGE PARNHAM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY IN ANDREA YATES CASE: Well, if you have objective evidence as was talked about by the good doctor, medical reports, things of that nature, that, to me if properly authenticated can be a way to do it, but --

GRACE: Could that doctor come in, George? Could that pediatrician come in, if one exists?

PARNHAM: Yes, the doctors can take the witness stand and so testify, but I agree with my colleague out in Las Vegas. This young woman has to take the stand at some point during this trial that jury wants to see and hear from the person whose fate is in their hands.

GRACE: Everyone, we are taking your calls live, but right now "CNN Heroes.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here in Hanoi, kids come to the streets hoping it`s better than living in poverty in the countryside, but often they find things are much worse for them here. You can actually identify kids who are living and working on the streets.

They may get detained by the authorities. They may get beaten up. There are gangs selling heroine. Kids are being tricked, sold into prostitution. It was just a case of, I can help so I should help.

My name is Michael, I work in Vietnam with street kids, trying to get them off the streets and back into school and into safe homes. How are you?

When we started out our goal was to get them back to school, to do that we realized we would have to take that place of providing an income, food, providing the shelter. Our center is where the kids know to come. This is where they feel safe.

They can join in our activities. They can talk to the staff and then we have to make sure they`re working toward education or getting a job or improving their health. We also have to be careful that if the child has a family, the family`s as involved as possible.

It`s an amazing feeling, getting to watch these kids go from being malnourished and just completely lacking confidence to wanting to make a change. I grew up in poverty, and I often used to think I could do something good with my life. If only someone would come and give me that chance. Now I`m the guy who can help these kids and give them a chance.



GRACE: The murder trial of tot mom Casey Anthony, under way. Finally, reality hits, the consequences of murder. And the brutal death of 2-year- old Caylee Marie Anthony.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Florida versus Casey Anthony.

GRACE: The day arrived for a tearful Casey Anthony.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The media is going to have a freaking field day with this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will read you the indictment.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here stands a young woman standing trial for her life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Count one, first-degree murder.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m sorry for what I did.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For lack of maturity.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Turns on the waterworks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Count two, aggravated child abuse.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: History of child abuse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Count four, providing false information to a law enforcement officer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lack of impulse control.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Looking miserable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Count three, aggravated manslaughter of a child.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Looking down, red nose.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mother and father failed to protect her as a child.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I woke up, night after night, with my sports bra lifted over my chest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seeking the death penalty against Casey Marie Anthony.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have selected a real nice hotel for you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Find your little girl.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Food will be excellent.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People have been lying to you guys.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sheer disdain. The child`s remains tossed away.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever had anything so bad happen to you --


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- that you told no one about?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re trying to make this as pleasant as possible.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Caylee, give me a kiss.


GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Marine Captain Brian Letendre, 27, Virginia, killed in Iraq. Second tour, awarded bronze star, Purple Heart, Navy and Marine Corps commendation medals. Buried at Arlington just a few miles from where he grew up.

Loved playing, coaching soccer, teaching his toddler son baseball. Leaves behind parents, June and Milton. Brother Nicholas. Widow, Autumn. Son, Dylan. Brian Letendre, American Hero.

Thanks to our guests, but especially to you. Special good night from the New York control room. Good night, Brett, Liz, Rosie, Dana. Where`s Squeaky? Gone? OK, she`s under the desk.

And happy birthday to California friend, Vicki. Never misses a show, loves volunteering, handing out toys to needy children in her lower Lake community. Happy birthday, friend. Everyone, I`ll see you Monday night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.


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